ADRIAN MA, HOST:
Donald Trump has campaigned for and won the support of several relatively newish industries. We're talking artificial intelligence, cryptocurrency and vaping. But unlike the first two - AI and cryptocurrency - vaping policy has largely remained unchanged since the Biden administration, and that's why an industry group called the Vapor Technology Association has been lobbying the Trump administration and placing ads calling on Trump to uphold his campaign promises. So how is the president's stance on vaping going to play out here? For some perspective, we turn to Nick Florko, who's a staff writer covering public health at The Atlantic, and he joins us now. Hey, Nick.
NICK FLORKO: Hey.
MA: To start us off, President Trump claimed he saved vaping in 2019. From what?
FLORKO: Yeah, so in 2019, at the height of the youth vaping epidemic, the Trump administration actually announced that it was planning to ban all flavored vapes. So data was consistently showing that kids overwhelmingly were attracted to these flavored products, and so the thought was they needed to be completely ridded of the market. This was something that President Trump supposedly supported, but then he ended up subsequently backtracking on it in the last minute for fear of political backlash. And so when he says that he saved flavored vaping, what essentially he is saying is that he backed away from a policy that he once supported.
MA: And more recently, what has been driving Trump's support for vaping in the latest presidential campaign?
FLORKO: There's really two pieces that would lend his support. So the first is that, you know, this is a business issue. A lot of vape shops are small businesses. There's this idea that we shouldn't shut down these businesses just because we might not agree with everything that they're selling. And the other point, though, that I think is really worth focusing on is this question of whether vapes can help adults quit smoking. And even the FDA says if you switch from a cigarette to a vape, you actually could improve your health, and so we should celebrate that.
MA: Can you say more about how Trump's FDA is approaching vaping regulations?
FLORKO: Thus far, it really has been status quo from the Biden administration. So nearly every vape that you see on a shelf, if you go to a convenience store or a smoke shop, nearly every one of those vapes is actually illegal. The FDA said they shouldn't be sold. The FDA has really, really struggled to police that market. And so during the Trump administration, we've essentially seen, you know, the same things. We're seeing enforcement actions of trying to pull these vapes off of shelves, but it really not making much of an impact. And so this industry remains in this sort of gray area where their products are very ubiquitous but technically are illegal.
MA: What makes them illegal?
FLORKO: The FDA is tasked with deciding what vapes can actually be authorized. That's the official term. And they use this standard called the appropriate for the protection of public health standard. Essentially, the FDA has to go through all of this data that are submitted by companies making a case for why the market needs this product and why it's not going to hurt kids. And so a few companies have gotten that authorization. Most recently, JUUL just got their authorization to sell their products legally. But most of these products that we see on store shelves haven't gotten that authorization. We've seen the FDA shoot down millions of applications, actually.
MA: A lot of the concern about vaping is its effects on people's health, like young people. Is that still as much of a concern as it was during, say, the first Trump administration, or have young people kind of moved on from vapes to things like nicotine patches?
FLORKO: So it is still definitely a concern. I mean, we should never be talking about vaping without talking about the impact on kids, and most major public health groups still think the FDA should be taking a really stringent position here. But the data do suggest, actually, that kids' vaping rates have dramatically dropped, which is a good thing. So in 2019, we were seeing, you know, roughly a quarter of middle and high schoolers reported currently vaping. That is now in the single digits. Less than 6% of young people now actually report regularly vaping. So we are seeing some change here. And gradually, we're seeing some folks change their tune and saying, OK, if the youth vaping crisis has abated, if we figured out how to keep kids away from these products, what role do vapes now have in our society? Can they have some sort of positive effect? Should they be available to adults now that we have gotten the kid issue under control?
MA: I mean, I wonder, though, do you feel like if the regulations move the way the industry is hoping they will, is a worry that that trend could backslide?
FLORKO: Yeah, and there's a real concern about these vapes that are coming in and being sold illegally. And the products that are coming in from China are largely unregulated. We don't know how these products are being made. We don't know what is in them. And a lot of the times they are being marketed to kids. I mean, we're seeing kid-friendly flavors. We're even seeing, you know, vapes that have little video games on them now. You know, the problem definitely isn't over, even though we're seeing the numbers get better. And I think that's what public health groups are saying.
MA: We've been talking with Nick Florko, staff writer at The Atlantic. Nick, thanks again for joining us.
FLORKO: Of course, thanks for having me.
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