Program transcript:
Grant Reeher: Welcome to the Campbell Conversations, I'm Grant Reeher. My guest today is New York Congressman Marc Molinaro. The Republican was elected in November 2022 to represent the 19th District, a large geographic area that spans from Ithaca and Cortland in the west to the Massachusetts border in the east and includes the city of Binghamton in the southwest. Last month, he was defeated in a very close election by Democrat Josh Riley. Among other political offices and experiences, Congressman Molinaro was a Republican candidate for governor of New York State and he has appeared several times previously on this program. Congressman Molinaro, welcome back to the program and I just want to say I really appreciate you being willing to speak to me in your last month of office. It's very generous of you to do that, and I appreciate it.
Marc Molinaro: Well, I appreciated our conversations. I enjoyed being on. And I'll tell you what I tell everybody else, the Constitution's pretty clear, I have a job that will conclude at 11:59 a.m. on January 3rd.
GR: (laughter)
MM: So I think that the public expects that I'm going to work until 11:59 a.m. on January 3rd of next year, and that's my commitment.
GR: Okay, well, we appreciate that and I'm glad you included this in it. So let me just start with what I imagine may be the least pleasant part of this interview for you, but I wanted to ask you about the election itself. As I just mentioned, two years ago, you won what was a close election against Josh Riley, this time you lost a very close election. What do you think was the difference between the two? What was the difference maker, if there was one you could point to?
MM: Well, last time I got more votes, this time I got less votes. (laughter) So, listen, I accept wins and losses. I think it's the beauty of this country and certainly it's actually one of the compelling reasons I enter into public service a long time ago, right? And that is, you know, the public gets to decide and we honor the vote. And so from the outset, I want to say that, I honor and respect the vote. I wish Josh Reilly success, we’ve spoken, and my office stands ready to assist in transitioning. All he needs to do is ask and our folks and I will be ready to assist. And so what I am about to say, I preface what I was about to say with that because I do think the significant difference was the amount of money spent by national Democrats. And it's as simple as that. We could pick apart my record and those who would not want to support me might find the things they, you know, they disagree with, and those who did support me find the things they did agree with. But overwhelmingly, the fact that Democrats were able to direct $250 million to four races in the state of New York is both impactful and obscene. Now, listen, Republicans spent money, too, but in my race, we were outspent by eight and a half million dollars. It’s very hard to overcome that kind of spending, it just is. And I would tell you both as a member of Congress and a soon to be former member of Congress, I’ll continue to advocate for restrictions on spending. You know, the fact is there's just far too much money being spent on these races and in candidates, you're left defending against things that just aren't true. And I'll be candid, listen, I, you know, to his credit, he ran a very disciplined race, but telling people I was opposed to women making their own health care choices is wrong. It's dishonest and it's not right. Telling them that I oppose access to birth control when I'm the one sponsoring legislation to protect access to birth control is just wrong, it's dishonest. And we just didn't have the resources to overcome it. And so, you know, that was eroded from us. The other of course, it's a presidential election year and turnout was a little bit higher. And so, you know, all that, you know, added up together to provide a very narrow loss. I accept it. And as I said, I wish him well. I just think that having done this for a very long time, you know, I was first elected as an 18 year old in 1994 as a village trustee in Tivoli, New York. And here I am 30 years later in 2024, ending my public service career, albeit I think for a moment in time. You know, as a member of Congress after 30 years, elections just have become less and less tethered to truth and it's really disturbing. And I do believe we all need to do better to really uphold the basic standard of honesty. Fight as we must, but there needs to be a commitment to doing somewhat more honest.
GR: Well I wanted to ask you a question about some of your messaging, if I could.
MM: Yeah, fine.
GR: And this is what I saw in some of your TV ads. It seemed to me that those ads portrayed you as more partisan and further to the right than my sense of your behavior in Congress. I mean, I watched a couple of them and I thought, that doesn't sound like the person that's been talking to me on the radio program. And it doesn't also, you know, your record and some of the things that you have done and searching for bipartisan ground in doing so. So I was just curious about the decision making regarding that. I don't know if there's a story there, but…
MM: Well, I mean, two thirds of the ads were neither my campaigns nor Josh's campaigns. They were funded by these outside political action committees, which, you know, we need to support us. I mean, it's the way it works. They, you know, as I said, they were able to spend about I think was about 32 or $35 million, something in that neighborhood. And of course we spent a lot less and were more in the $18 million range. But again, horrific amounts of money and there's just too much money. I was outspent by more dollars than some entire congressional races cost in this country. And so some of those ads, you know, I can't say that I enjoyed or didn't enjoy. I just had nothing to do with (unintelligible). The ads I think that mattered to me were, and I tell people, you know, there were basically two and one was with my mom looking into the camera telling you what we think. And the other was me looking in the camera, telling you what I think. I mean, the truth is, you know, we ran an entire campaign where the ads I paid for were me telling you what I think and the other side ran campaign ads that paid people to tell you what I think. And it just you know, it was a bit disheartening. But I also agree, you know, because there was so much money from the other side, we were forced to kind of run a race that defended my, you know, my right flank while trying to expand the middle. And I'll tell you, in fact, just yesterday, this political action committee aligned with the Democratic National Committee called Saving Western Civilization, it's a political action committee. They just finally filed their disclosure forms, but they ran an entire campaign in about five congressional districts. Mine was one of them in the country where they sent digital ads, text messages, postcards to Republicans telling them that we weren't Republican enough and pointing out to them that we had let Republicans down. And when you look at the math, you know, in a race in a district that basically is 50/50, you can't erode two or three percentage points on the right and one or two on the left and win. And so it was a very difficult kind of thing to maneuver. You know, Josh, again, this is not criticism, he had like 57 different ads, we had 5. I mean it just, when you have that kind of money you can do a lot of things and some of them were not honest. Some of them were very much about him and his record and God bless him. But that made it difficult at times to get out of hand.
GR: You're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher and I'm speaking with Congressman Marc Molinaro, who represents New York's 19th Congressional District. Well, let's turn now to your time in Congress. What would you regard as your most significant achievement in your two years?
MM: Well first, just being the second most bipartisan member of Congress. I mean, you know, to your point, a few moments ago, I spent my entire adult life trying to work with Republicans and Democrats and anyone to try to solve problems. And I brought that same commitment to Washington. I didn't sponsor a single bill that was not bipartisan. And I, frankly, was responsible for, you know, both killing very partisan legislation that some on the right wanted and strengthening legislation that some on the left wanted and sort of navigating and mediating out to better outcomes. From the debt ceiling negotiation that brought about billions of dollars in federal spending reductions, but also met many of our needs, to negotiation over policies that, you know, provided assistance to those living in mental health services, mental health needs and infrastructure investment and support for law enforcement. So just the very nature of applying that commitment and again, the willingness to work with people irrespective of party to solve problems, I think you know, is something that I'm very proud about. But I also tell you and I know you get to it, I mean, the work we did to support those with mental health and disabilities, I co-chaired the bipartisan Mental Health Caucus. I lead the coalitions for those with disabilities with dozens of pieces of legislation provisions written. The Farm Bill, which I wish we had gotten done entirely, but nevertheless, the bipartisan bill adopted by the House AG Committee includes provisions that could only be written from upstate New York and frankly, very happy about that. But the last thing I'll tell you that I'm certainly most grateful and proud of is our constituent work. The people who work with me every day in the community responding and being responsive and responsible to the people we serve. And I don't think there's a community organization or a member of the public who interacted with our team who wouldn't say we weren't kind, we weren't responsive, we weren’t responsible. I think, you know, we really try to uphold that standard and frankly, I'm saddest for that because I think, you know, the constituents and voters expect that. I'm hopeful that my successor will apply the same kind of commitment. But the people that I that I hired and the people who worked with me have a deep sense of commitment and involvement in the community and that, you know, that makes me very grateful.
GR: And that's a really important part of the job and I'm glad that you pointed that out. I did want to, you're right, I did want to ask you about your work regarding mental health and disability. And particularly your Think Differently initiative, which was kind of a(n) umbrella theme that captured a lot of different things that that you were trying to do. It struck me, I think as important, you and I have talked about our personal connections with this, but just tell our listeners about that initiative and whether and how you might plan to try to keep that momentum going forward in the future.
MM: Yeah, thank you. So, Think Differently was launched in 2015 as a local effort that became very national when I held county office. But to your point, a broad umbrella under which we could organize resources, tools and advocacy along with awareness and understanding for those with intellectual, physical and developmental disabilities. The idea that we need to break down barriers and create opportunities. And by the way, individuals with disabilities as you and I both know, still face some of the most difficult prejudices, biases and obstacles. You know, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is extended to a lot of people, but those with disabilities often are not among them. And so making a commitment to break down barriers, create opportunities was important to me. Came to Congress, sponsored about 12 pieces of legislation that are specific to that theme, everything from ensuring greater response in emergencies for those with disabilities, making sure the tools and resources were there, job opportunities for those with disabilities and access to both housing and transportation. Many of those bills have been adopted. In fact, this week we've had already one more signed into law, I expect probably two more signed into law before I'm done this term. And so I think of important advancements. But beyond that, just within that context, you know, serving in a bipartisan leadership role, advocating for those with disabilities. You know, the last major disabilities piece of legislation was from 1990 and the Americans with Disabilities Act. Special education is always on the chopping block because of state aid and the way in which we sort of create secondary, you know, a secondary path to education for those with disabilities. And so we've got to keep advocating for those reforms and address the challenges that those with disabilities and their families face. Everything from good pay for direct care staff to housing, education and transportation as individuals with disabilities become more independent and obviously live a longer life. And so, you know, I'm going to keep doing that. I promised the organizations that I've worked with, both at home and in Washington, that I'm, you know, I can't be paid to lobby Congress, but I certainly can volunteer to advocate for the things that we care about. And so I'll continue to be a resource for those organizations, continue to advocate for those with disabilities. My wife and I actually had incorporated Think Differently as a not for profit some years ago. We didn't really want to put any a resource behind it, didn't want to conflict with any of our public responsibilities. We'll probably do a little, give a little bit of more energy to assist. I’d probably tell you my wife will probably take a much bigger role than I would. But to be a resource for individuals and organizations that support those with disabilities. And I'm going to continue to advocate and work with the organizations in the 19th district in upstate New York to be of assistance.
GR: Are you allowed to tell our listeners now, like where they can go if they want to help support that organization?
MM: Well, I can't really.
GR: Okay. But if we search Think Differently…
MM: Earlier this week, we had a roundtable in Binghamton with the Chamber of Commerce. One of the first things I'll do in the New Year is we're going to convene the Greater Binghamton Chamber of Commerce with the not for profit organizations that support those with disabilities to start building out a set of employment principles that businesses in the southern tier in Broome County could put into practice to hire those with disabilities. And then set out to establish some broader, you know, interaction so that the business community can work more directly with those with disabilities and create new job and employment opportunities. That's going to be one of the first things we do early next year.
GR: Great. You're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media, I'm Grant Reeher and I'm talking with Republican Congressman Marc Molinaro. He represents New York's 19th congressional district. So let me ask you this, of your time there what was your fondest memory? Maybe your best day, if you will, in Congress?
MM: I have always shied away from these because it's like everything was a really cool experience. I mean, listen, being in the room when, whether it was Speaker McCarthy or Speaker Johnson needed a voice to get us toward you know, producing an outcome, is by far the greatest honors. I'm a freshman member, and I will just tell you, very, very few freshmen get invited to those meetings. But I will say, when it came to every major advancement, whether it was our conference moving legislation or trying to negotiate across the aisle, of course you had a Democrat president, Democrat Senate at the time, I was asked to be in the room in a small number of people to help negotiate solutions. Really, really big honor and fascinating opportunity. Now, I'm a kid who grew up on food stamps. You know, my parents, we were poor, and here I am in these meetings with, you know, leaders from around the country trying to negotiate outcomes in my first term as a member, I'll never forget that. But I’ll also tell you, because I know we've talked about this, you know, I jog and run quite often. There's nothing like waking up just before sunrise in Washington, D.C., we have to be here when we serve and going out for a run around the Capitol, down to the Lincoln Memorial and then back again. It's inspiring, it’s awe inspiring and it's just a, it's an amazing thing. I said this to a reporter who asked me some time ago, as much as I love running among the monuments and the buildings, it's equally interesting to run among the people because you're running past organized lobbying groups, special interest groups, American citizens who are here to petition their government, tourists from around the corner and around the world, prayer groups that pick up in the mall, protests around the Supreme Court. And, you know, I don't want this to sound arrogant, nobody knew who I was, I was just a guy in shorts and t-shirt, running. And to experience and see that as somebody who loves democracy, loves this republic, loves the act of public service, that is among the that the most wonderful parts of having served these last two years. But, and you said like, point to a day or not, I can't tell you the thousands of community events organizations we've interacted with that haven't left me thinking, you know, we can do something about that. A woman that served on one of the advisory committee said, you know, you made us feel like you were always listening, you were always taking notes, you were always relatable and we always felt like you were, you know, you were among us, one of us. And I think that I hope people who have interacted with feel that way, because I did and I still do. I mean, I've got books and books of notes that, you know, we have reflected on the move policy and ideas. And that interaction, in giving voice to people who don't often have it and just being that, you know, being able to be connected is really, really powerful and really important and I've enjoyed it.
GR: So the other side of the coin now, of course, the worst day or the low point and connected to that, any regrets about your service, things you wish you had done differently?
MM: There's always things I wish that I had done differently and I just have perfected never saying them out loud to the masses.
GR: (laughter)
MM: I make my mistakes, there are things, you know, are there tweets that I wish that we didn't send out are there comments that I wish I didn't say, there’s a frustration that sometimes overcame me, absolutely, I mean, we're all human. But I learned from those. I mean, I do think you learn from your mistakes, missteps and failures a heck of a lot more than your successes, so this is another opportunity. And those that I know of and have reflected on are opportunities to learn and hopefully grow from. But I will say, you know, the two things that, well, one sort of action here that was among the lowest is when the eight Republicans joined with every Democrat of the House to oust Speaker Kevin McCarthy. And it isn't about McCarthy, it's about the institution and that forever set in motion these last two years, a bit of chaos that was very hard to overcome. I'm grateful to have been in the room and to have encouraged my colleagues to come together to ultimately move forward behind Speaker Mike Johnson, he's become a good friend and frankly is giving me opportunity to help shape policy in ways that I couldn't have expected. But the fact that, again, eight Republicans and 200 Democrats band together to oust the speaker, only the second time in history, and it's just not right, it's not acceptable. And it was really, it was a low point because we had opportunity. We all did, and had we figured out some way to navigate that Republicans and Democrats, we can have our fights and our disagreements, but we wouldn't have sent the institution, you know, into a bit of chaos. And that was really, really very challenging and really upsetting. I mean, among the dumbest actions I think ever taken by the House of Representatives, I mean, outside of bad policy, this was sort of a procedural thing that should never, never happen and should never happen again. I will say on a personal note, I love the work I do. Being separated from my kids and family as often as we are, I don't have the benefit of personal wealth. I don't own two homes. You know, I fly back to Albany from D.C., drive to Catskill and I'm home. You are away from your family a lot more and it's important, right? We know we're on a mission. We know we have responsibility, we make the sacrifice. But there are lots of things that you miss along the way. I couldn't bring my kids to preschool or elementary school in Washington, they need to be among their friends in their community. And just missing those things at times is heartbreaking. That said, I don't know when this airs, but we are recording one day before my son Eli who will turn 8 on December 26th, will be performing as a Tiny Tim in the Performing Arts Center Community Theater. I will be home to see that, and so I feel very blessed that at the very least, I get that opportunity.
GR: Fantastic. If you've just joined us, you're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media and my guest is Congressman Marc Molinaro. So what's the most important thing about Congress that average citizens don't know or appreciate? Two things, okay.
MM: 85% of what we do is bipartisan and without a lot of conflict and you don't ever really get to see it. Truly the media and then those show horses, and you pick who they are, distort that, they just distort it. I mean there's so much good work going on that, and again, principled arguments, certainly different opinions, but 85% of what happens in Washington, D.C. is, and in Congress is not nearly as is a dire and chaotic and dramatic as you see it on television. And I really, even some of the things you see on television that look dramatic, I always wonder where was I? Because I was there and it didn't seem that dramatic when I was here.
GR: (laughter)
MM: And so that for me, I think people should know that, you know. And it isn't smoke filled rooms where decisions get made. I mean, and even this in quotes, “special interest”, I mean, every day in my office is a special interest and usually it's somebody from the district who's with an organization to support local pharmacies, to support the breast cancer awareness, to advocate for some policy and there is the resident from Ithaca, there's the person from Binghamton, there's the business person from Norwich or Catskill or Hudson. And so, you know, you get a distorted view. And I did, too, right, I was not a member of Congress. I mean, despite the television ads, I was not in Congress for 30 years, I was only in Congress for a year and a half. You would've thought I was responsible for everything these last 30 years in America. But I spent, you know, a lot of time in local government, you don't have that appreciation until you're here. You think it is as dramatic and theatrical as you see and it isn't. The only other thing I'll say very quickly is, what I learned and have learned to appreciate, now I've served in the legislatures before, both in county and the state legislature, but neither of them rely on committees as much as the House does. The business of the House gets done in committees, and those committees have very strict jurisdiction. This comes from Thomas Jefferson, by the way, the very basic concept that you start from the bottom and work your way up in order to get legislation done and in order to ensure that, you know, that we're good at what we do, and by the way, if you're listening, you can argue with whether or not we are. But that said, in order to be good at what we do, we specialize, right? The committee specialize in topic areas, and the debate and the work product is it occurs at the committee level. And a lot of really spirited debates and disagreements occurred at the committee level. You don't always see that because, you know, you only see the end product. It's not sausage being made, it's not some, you know, discredited thing going on behind. It's actually here we are debating and crafting legislation. But it's a rigid, structured committee process. What comes to the floor must ultimately have started someplace else. Yes, we bypass that process from time to time, but every piece of legislation of note is crafted and recrafted and refined in a committee. And that really is very cool for a person who likes government. It's pretty interesting as people who celebrate democracy because, right, it's sort of compartmentalized before it gets to the big body. And it is where members of Congress become specialists in certain areas. And so it's funny, when I was a county executive, I would tell you we needed to have a knowledge base that was a mile wide and a few feet deep. In Congress, it's the other way around. It's sort of you become narrowly focused and deeply focused and have experience, deep experience in a narrower field of information.
GR: This is a perfect segue to the last question. We got about a couple of minutes left, I wanted to make sure I asked you this, but what you just said is one of the things that I tried to teach the students in my introductory American politics class this semester. I'm about to meet them on Monday for my last class meeting with them. And a lot of them, like everybody else in this country, are worried about the state of politics in America, they don't like a lot of what they see. So is there something that you can give me in about a minute or so that I could leave them with as a parting message from you to them?
MM: This is a participatory and volunteer sport. Our democracy, our republic requires your participation, and we must acknowledge that that participation is voluntary. So choose to be engaged. You want the system to be better, you have to be better. You want politicians to pay attention, you've got to engage. And it's not just in the social media, it's not just in the yelling on the streets, it's not just in the letters to the editor or the campaigns. It's every day engaging in a way that tries to move the conversation. Maybe it's toward a direction you favor, but still engage and don't give up. This place, this country is still the greatest republic the sun is ever shined upon, to quote Teddy Roosevelt. But it is always in need of our earnest engagement. Participate and volunteer to be engaged in that process. And I promise you, you'll see progress and we will continue to evolve in very promising ways as a country.
GR: Oh, that's great, thanks for that. That was Marc Molinaro, again, Congressman Molinaro, thanks so much for taking the time to talk with me. And again, under the circumstances, you didn't have to do it, but you did. I wish you the best in whatever your next chapter is. And let me just say, I guess bordering on editorial comment, I think the institution needs more Marc Molinaro’s and John Katko's on both sides of the aisle. I think that would make for a better and wiser and better functioning institution. But thank you.
MM: Thank you. I appreciate it. Be well and call me any time. Maybe I'll come in and talk to one of those classes sometime.
GR: That would be wonderful. You've been listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media, conversations and the public interest.
