The Woman Behind The New Deal

By Rund Abdelfatah,

Ramtin Arablouei, Lawrence Wu, Julie Caine, Devin Katayama, Cristina Kim, Anya Steinberg, Casey Miner, Amber Qi

Published June 5, 2025 at 8:57 AM EDT

From Social Security and the minimum wage to exit signs and fire escapes, Frances Perkins transformed how people in the U.S. lived and worked. Today on the show: how a middle class do-gooder became one of the savviest and most powerful people in American politics — and built the social safety net we have today.

Guests:

Kirstin Downey, author of The Woman Behind the New Deal

Stephanie Dray, author of Becoming Madam Secretary

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Rund Abdelfatah

Rund Abdelfatah is the co-host and producer of Throughline, a podcast that explores the history of current events. In that role, she's responsible for all aspects of the podcast's production, including development of episode concepts, interviewing guests, and sound design.

See stories by Rund Abdelfatah

Ramtin Arablouei

Ramtin Arablouei is co-host and co-producer of NPR's podcast Throughline, a show that explores history through creative, immersive storytelling designed to reintroduce history to new audiences.

See stories by Ramtin Arablouei

Lawrence Wu

Julie Caine

Julie Caine is senior editor for NPR's Throughline. An award-winning editor, reporter and audio producer, Caine's heart is in her ears. She led podcasting and on-demand audio at KQED in San Francisco, overseeing strategy, new show development and a vibrant podcast portfolio, including The Bay, Truth Be Told and Rightnowish. She helped found Jetty Studios, an international podcast unit for the Al Jazeera Media Network, where she launched Closer Than They Appear and Game of Our Lives, and developed The Take. She's a founding producer and editor on The Stoop and The Specialist podcasts, and was managing producer for Crosscurrents at KALW Public Radio, a springboard for shows like 99% Invisible, Snap Judgment, The Intersection, and Kamau Right Now. She believes deeply in Grace Paley's maxim that you must be a story listener to be a storyteller.

Devin Katayama

Devin Katayama is a Senior Producer for NPR's Throughline podcast. He was formerly Editor of Talent and Development for KQED, where he created equitable opportunities for interns and newsroom staff. Prior to that, he hosted The Bay and American Suburb podcasts. While an education reporter with WFPL, Katayama won WBUR's 2014 Daniel Schorr award and a regional RTNDA Edward R. Murrow Award for his documentary "At Risk." Katayama has also received numerous local awards from the Associated Press and the Society of Professional Journalists. He earned his master's in journalism from Columbia College Chicago, and a bachelor's in English creative writing from CUNY Hunter College. Katayama is based in Vallejo, California – the 707.

Cristina Kim

Cristina Kim is a reporter/producer for Throughline.

Anya Steinberg

Casey Miner

Casey Miner is an award-winning narrative audio editor, producer and writer who's worked with NPR, Wondery, Reveal, The Stoop, Slate, Pop-Up Magazine and Mother Jones, among many others. Projects she's worked on have been recognized by the Peabody Awards, the Emmy Awards, the National Association of Black Journalists and the Society of Professional Journalists. She created and hosted The Specialist, a podcast about work we don't think about and the people who do it, and is a co-founder of the Editors Collective, a group of narrative audio editors working to diversify the field and build networks and career paths for new editors. [Copyright 2024 NPR]

Amber Qi