JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Today is the fourth day of demonstrations in Los Angeles after Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents conducted raids there on Friday. Since then, there have been mostly peaceful demonstrations daily, though there have been some clashes between law enforcement and protesters in and around the city. President Trump has called the protesters insurrectionists, and he sent in the National Guard to support ICE agents and ensure law and order, a move Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass told our cohost Scott Detrow is, quote, "an intentional effort to sow chaos." Now as plans for protests spread across the country, the state of California is suing the Trump administration over the National Guard deployment, and California Governor Gavin Newsom joins us now. Welcome.
GAVIN NEWSOM: Good to be with you.
SUMMERS: Let's start there with the lawsuit. You've decided to sue the Trump administration. Explain why - on what grounds?
NEWSOM: Well, it's an illegal act. It's immoral. It's also unconstitutional. And the mobilization order that was sent to the Guard has a statute that requires it shall be issued through governors of the states. And I want to remind people listening, this impacts every state in America, not just the state of California. Obviously, for anyone who's been listening and watching, that mobilization order was not done with communication to our office. It was not approved by my office - quite the contrary. In fact, Trump's own executive order directing the DOD said to coordinate under Section 12406, and I forget the technicality, but it's an important one, and that section explicitly states the same, that the order must go through the governor of the state.
SUMMERS: NPR has earlier this evening confirmed that a full Marine battalion, around 700 Marines, has been mobilized for Los Angeles in a, quote, "support role." Your reaction?
NEWSOM: Well, he's sowing more division, more chaos. He's inciting just the same and more fear, more anxiety, more likelihood that people are going to be hurt. We're on the other side of the red line. This has little precedent in modern American history. He also just moments ago ordered an additional 2,000 state National Guard to be federalized - now over 4,000. The irony, by the way, shouldn't be lost on anybody. He's only been able to find operational demand for a little over 300 state National Guard. He has 1,700 that haven't been tasked, and here he is trying to assign tasks to an additional 2,000 and threatening the Insurrection Act by mobilizing the military to come into a U.S. city and creating conditions that many would be perceived as a threat.
SUMMERS: This seems to have started over ICE agents attempting to carry out detentions. If they face threats by people who are trying to impede their work, Governor, would you instruct state or local law enforcement to assist them?
NEWSOM: We do not impede upon federal authority to enforce federal law with federal resources, period, full stop. That's the state of California. And so my state of mind is they have a lawful right with a warrant to move in that direction. If they are attacked or if their lives are at risk, everybody has a responsibility - we all do - to protect the peace. But what I do not support is these random acts that are occurring all over LA County. I've been meeting with leaders and activists that said in 30-plus years this simply has no precedent, and we're just Day 4.
SUMMERS: Now, Tom Homan, who is President Trump's so-called border czar, has threatened arrest for anyone who gets in ICE's way. And in another interview, you essentially told him to bring it on. Today, President Trump told reporters that he would do it, if he were Tom, that he would arrest you. Are you prepared to be arrested?
NEWSOM: Yeah. It just shows the theater of the absurd. That's - all this is is weakness masquerading as strength, these tough guys. And I said, look, it's Day 3 of threatening arrests, and I thought in my life I would never hear the words of the president of the United States of America - these are things you see in authoritarian regimes and dictatorships - and I never thought those words would be uttered by a president against a political opponent who happens to be governor because that governor disagrees with his unlawful orders. Look, after three days of hearing this, you push back, but look, I have no problem. If he wants to arrest me, let's dispense with the threats. If he wants to do it, let's just get it done.
But what I'm sick of and what needs to end today is arresting children and creating a state of arrest all across our state, this chill where people aren't even going to graduations - hundreds of graduations in LA County. Kids are scared to go to graduation. Families are unwilling to gather publicly. They're scared to walk the streets. Stop that. You need someone's head? You need to be the tough guy, and you need to show how strong you are? Fine, take me out, but have these kids - have some decency and have the backs of these children.
SUMMERS: We've got a little more than a minute left. We mentioned that there are plans for more protests across this country outside of your state of California. Governor, any advice for other state and local leaders who may find themselves up against some of the same challenges that you and your state are facing today?
NEWSOM: Well, this is a - look, this is - in so many ways, we've seen this movie before - January 6. He stoked the anxiety, the fear. He helped create the conditions. And then he sat back as if he's the music man or so, and he quite literally put people's lives at risk. And the Orwellian nature saying you care about law enforcement. He's the guy who literally pardoned the people that attacked law enforcement and attacked the core constructs of our democracy. Well, he's doing that again. This is not about immigration. This is not about the state of California. This is about the state of our democracy. This is about the cornerstones of what this country was founded on, coequal branches of government and popular sovereignty, the rule of law.
And so my warning to every governor, regardless of your political stripe, is this is a preview of things to come. And I pray for only one thing, and that's peace - peaceful protests. And to the agitators, to the outliers, to those that are coming in to sow even more chaos than Donald Trump himself, that's what he wants. And I also pray they are held to account. You can't...
SUMMERS: All right...
NEWSOM: ...Smash cars. You cannot create conditions that make peaceful protesting more difficult and play into Donald Trump's hand. And so if there's any counsel and advice, it's to be very clear about the rules of that kind of engagement. But the bottom line is Donald Trump has created this mess, and it will be governors across this country who will have to clean it up.
SUMMERS: We will have to leave it there. That's Governor Gavin Newsom of California. Thank you so much.
NEWSOM: Thanks for having me.
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