The Indicator: American science brain drain

By Darian Woods,

Adrian Ma, Julia Ritchey, Kate Concannon, Rebecca Ramirez, Regina G. Barber, Berly McCoy

Published May 12, 2025 at 9:08 AM EDT

The jobs website Nature Careers saw a 32 percent increase in US-based scientists applying for jobs elsewhere in the first three months of this year.

Today, we're airing an episode of NPR's daily economics podcast, The Indicator from Planet Money. It's about a group of people we know well: scientists.

President Trump's federal cuts and scrutiny of academic institutions are forcing some U.S. scientists to head for the border. On today's show, an entomologist keeping America's farms safe from pests reconsiders America. And a CEO of a Canadian hospital explains how they are benefiting from the exodus.

Want to learn more about the intersection of science and the economy? Email us at shortwave@npr.org.

Listen to Short Wave on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts.

Listen to every episode of Short Wave sponsor-free and support our work at NPR by signing up for Short Wave+ at plus.npr.org/shortwave.

This episode was originally produced for the Indicator by Julia Ritchey and edited by Kate Concannon. The audio engineers were Maggie Luthar and Cena Loffredo. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. It was produced for Short Wave by Berly McCoy and edited by Rebecca Ramirez.

Tags

NPR Podcasts

Darian Woods

Darian Woods is a reporter and producer for The Indicator from Planet Money. He blends economics, journalism, and an ear for audio to tell stories that explain the global economy. He's reported on the time the world got together and solved a climate crisis, vaccine intellectual property explained through cake baking, and how Kit Kat bars reveal hidden economic forces.

See stories by Darian Woods

Adrian Ma

Adrian Ma covers work, money and other "business-ish" for NPR's daily economics podcast The Indicator from Planet Money.

Julia Ritchey

Julia Ritchey is an audio journalist with 15 years experience reporting, editing and podcasting all over the country. She's reported from eight states and all four U.S. time zones, most recently at Nashville Public Radio, Tennessee's largest NPR affiliate, overseeing the station's policy, environmental and education beats.

Kate Concannon

Kate Concannon is the Supervising Senior Editor at The Indicator from Planet Money. She leads this small, collaborative team of hosts, reporters and producers in making sense of crucial, but often complex and confusing, economic news in just 10 minutes a day.

Rebecca Ramirez

Rebecca Ramirez (she/her) is the founding producer of NPR's daily science podcast, Short Wave. It's a meditation in how to be a Swiss Army Knife, in that it involves a little of everything — background research, finding and booking sources, interviewing guests, writing, cutting the tape, editing, scoring ... you get the idea.

See stories by Rebecca Ramirez

Regina G. Barber

Regina G. Barber is Short Wave's Scientist in Residence. She contributes original reporting on STEM and guest hosts the show.

Berly McCoy

Kimberly (Berly) McCoy (she/her) is an assistant producer for NPR's science podcast, Short Wave. The podcast tells stories about science and scientists, in all the forms they take.