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A thought experiment on how to fix the national debt problem

WASHINGTON, DC - DECEMBER 03: A view of a billboard that displays the current U.S. National debt at 36 Trillion dollars on December 03, 2024 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Jemal Countess/Getty Images for the Peter G. Peterson Foundation)
Jemal Countess
/
Getty Images for the Peter G. P
WASHINGTON, DC - DECEMBER 03: A view of a billboard that displays the current U.S. National debt at 36 Trillion dollars on December 03, 2024 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Jemal Countess/Getty Images for the Peter G. Peterson Foundation)

There's an economic fantasy you sometimes hear in D.C. It often gets trotted out when politicians are trying to add billions or trillions to the national debt. They claim that all the new spending — whether it's tax cuts or corporate subsidies or infrastructure projects — will be worth it in the end because we will supercharge economic growth.

This fantasy recurs again and again, because economic growth is a potent force. Over the next few decades, tiny changes in how fast our economy grows could decide the fate of the federal government — whether we can bring the massive national debt under control or whether we spiral into a fiscal crisis.

Today on the show, we talk to three economists who have been sifting through the latest evidence. They're trying to figure out what the government could actually do to make the economy grow faster. Could we even grow fast enough to outrun our national debt?

The list of papers and studies referenced in the episode:

This episode of Planet Money was produced by Emma Peaslee with help from Sam Yellowhorse Kesler. It was edited by Jess Jiang. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Ko Takasugi-Czernowin. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer.

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Music: NPR Source Audio - "The Crypto Heist," "Something New," and "Successful Secrets"

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Jeff Guo
Jeff Guo (he/him) is a co-host and reporter for Planet Money, NPR's award-winning podcast that finds creative, entertaining ways to make sense of the complicated forces that move our economy. He joined the team in 2022.
Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi is a host and reporter for Planet Money, telling stories that creatively explore and explain the workings of the global economy. He's a sucker for a good supply chain mystery — from toilet paper to foster puppies to specialty pastas. He's drawn to tales of unintended consequences, like the time a well-intentioned chemistry professor unwittingly helped unleash a global market for synthetic drugs, or what happened when the U.S. Patent Office started granting patents on human genes. And he's always on the lookout for economic principles at work in unexpected places, like the tactics comedians use to protect their intellectual property (a.k.a. jokes).
Jess Jiang is the producer for NPR's international podcast, Rough Translation. Previously, Jess was a producer for Planet Money. In 2014, she won an Emmy for the team's T-shirt project. She followed the start of the t-shirt's journey, from cotton farms in Mississippi to factories in Indonesia. But her biggest prize has been getting to drive a forklift, back hoe, and a 35-ton digger for a story. Jess got her start in public radio at Studio 360—though, if you search hard enough, you can uncover a podcast she made back in college.
Emma Peaslee is a 2020-21 Kroc Fellow. Before coming to NPR, she reported for Atlanta's member station, WABE. She covered public forums about toxic chemicals leaking into neighborhoods, the world's largest 10K race, and the federal government's plan to resume executions. Peaslee has a master's degree in journalism from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where her work received the 2020 Edward R. Murrow Award for best student newscast. She is a Minnesota native.