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What’s best for Earth? The debate over deep ocean mining

Deep sea mining for rare earth elements could start as early as 2026, even as 38 countries have called for a moratorium on it.

The metals that companies are targeting are used in many green technologies like electric cars and wind turbines – but mining them is destructive to the environment. Some in the mining industry say the mining is necessary to a green transition – and essential to democratizing that transition globally since the supply chain is currently dominated by a single country, China. Meanwhile, some scientists caution against mining before the full scope of environmental damage can be understood.

Can there be balance in this environmental and political push-and-pull? Hosts Regina G. Barber and Emily Kwong dive into this debate and talk about what science has to say.

Curious about other science controversies? Email us at shortwave@npr.org.

Listen to every episode of Short Wave sponsor-free and support our work at NPR by signing up for Short Wave+ at plus.npr.org/shortwave.

Listen to Short Wave on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

This episode was produced by Rachel Carlson and Berly McCoy, edited by Rebecca and fact-checked by Tyler Jones. Jimmy Keeley was the audio engineer.

Copyright 2025 NPR

Regina G. Barber
Regina G. Barber is Short Wave's Scientist in Residence. She contributes original reporting on STEM and guest hosts the show.
Emily Kwong (she/her) is the reporter for NPR's daily science podcast, Short Wave. The podcast explores new discoveries, everyday mysteries and the science behind the headlines — all in about 10 minutes, Monday through Friday.
Rebecca Ramirez (she/her) is the founding producer of NPR's daily science podcast, Short Wave. It's a meditation in how to be a Swiss Army Knife, in that it involves a little of everything — background research, finding and booking sources, interviewing guests, writing, cutting the tape, editing, scoring ... you get the idea.
Berly McCoy
Kimberly (Berly) McCoy (she/her) is an assistant producer for NPR's science podcast, Short Wave. The podcast tells stories about science and scientists, in all the forms they take.
Rachel Carlson
Rachel Carlson (she/her) is a production assistant at Short Wave, NPR's science podcast. She gets to do a bit of everything: researching, sourcing, writing, fact-checking and cutting episodes.
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