SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
There's a new pope - Pope Leo XIV. A couple of days before the world saw white smoke pour out of that chimney on the top of the Sistine Chapel, I had sat down and spoke with Father James Martin, a Jesuit priest. We talked about Martin's ministry to LGBTQ Catholics, and we talked about his participation in Pope Francis' recent Synod on Synodality. And we are going to talk more about Martin's experience at that synod now because sitting at that table through the process with Martin was none other than the new pope, the first American pope, then-Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost. Father Martin, welcome back to the show.
JAMES MARTIN: My pleasure.
DETROW: What was your response when you heard that name yesterday?
MARTIN: Stunned. I couldn't believe it. In fact, when they mentioned Robert Francis, I thought, now what Latin American cleric with those two first names is it that I don't know. But it was someone I knew. And he's wonderful. It's a perfect choice.
DETROW: What should we know about him? What was it like to sit with him at that big process?
MARTIN: Well, personally, I want to tell people how humble and modest and reserved he is. He's an actual humble person, which is a rarity in the Vatican. He's very smart. He's a man of few words. He's firm - right? - when he speaks. He's confident about his opinions in a good way.
I think one of the most important things to know is that he was the prior general of the Augustinian Order. Now, that means he's the head of his whole religious order, which is elected, which means that all the Augustinians - known in the U.S. for Villanova, among other things - respect him, right? He has that background. He was in Latin America for many years in Peru. He speaks Spanish. He worked with the poor. He knows the Vatican. So he really comes with kind of the perfect CV for a pope.
DETROW: Just like anybody else, you weren't sure which direction the church would go. Now Pope Leo is in charge of the Catholic Church. You said your first reaction was rejoicing. Why?
MARTIN: I know him, and so I know that the cardinals have given the church a wonderful pope. I was also very moved by the choice of the name Leo XIV. Leo XIII was the father of Catholic social teaching. And so this choice of name indicates his alignment with the poor, with labor, with workers, which is just - it's just so beautiful. So I'll just say I cried after it was all over, and I was really overwhelmed with just how perfect a choice this is.
DETROW: Is it strange mentally to have to think of somebody you know and work with as Pope Leo?
MARTIN: Well, I mean, one thing is I don't know him that well. It's not like he's my best friend. But I think it's odd. I emailed him a few weeks ago about something, and I - it's strange to have the pope's email.
DETROW: Yeah, have to change his contact on your phone if you haven't. I do want to ask about a serious question, though. Over the past 24 hours, there's been a lot of digging into previous statements, previous actions that now-Pope Leo, then Cardinal Prevost, has taken. One area that's getting a lot of tension is the area where you have focused your ministry. What should we know about his stance on the big questions before the church and the LGBTQ community?
MARTIN: Well, I think he's been pretty quiet since 2012. That was a different time, though. I would say a couple of things. I found him to be very open, very welcoming. I think his first speech on the balcony of St. Peter's talked about building bridges and synodality (ph) and listening to people. And I can only tell you that he treated me with great dignity and respect and friendliness and courtesy and - so I hope for good things from him. And I think it's - you know, as pope, he's in a different position than he was when he was cardinal prefect of the Dicastery for Bishops. It's a different role now. It calls on different skills and a different kind of openness.
DETROW: You mentioned 2012. There's a quote going around of him criticizing, quote, "the homosexual lifestyle." Your thought is, that's not something that's especially bothering you at this moment more than a decade later?
MARTIN: No, because I think he's an open person, and I know him to be open. And also, the grace of office, as we say in the Catholic Church, means that he's going to be a different kind of person as pope, and we have to sort of pray for him and be with him in that way.
DETROW: Lastly, does having an American pope change anything for the Catholic Church or for American Catholics?
MARTIN: Absolutely. I mean, to have the pope speak in an American accent is unbelievable. I mean, whenever we've heard the pope, he's - you know, even Francis, who tried to speak in English, there's a kind of distance. There's a kind of remove. And I think one of the things that just elated me last night was what this means for the American Church. Imagine him going back to Chicago or Villanova or anywhere and being able to talk to people about the Cubs or the White Sox and - it brings the papacy closer to people in a way that has never happened before.
DETROW: The internet was pointing out we have a Big East pope now.
MARTIN: That's right. And I know from my cousins who went to Villanova that the bells at the church of Villanova were ringing all night.
DETROW: That is Father James Martin, author and editor-at-large at America Magazine. Thanks for talking to us about this moment.
MARTIN: A pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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