Program transcription:
Grant Reeher: Welcome to the Campbell Conversations, I'm Grant Reeher. My guest today is Chris Libonati. He's the managing editor of Central Current an online media outlet in Central New York. He also has experience as a crime and politics reporter at the Syracuse Post-Standard. Chris, welcome to the program, it's good to have you on.
Chris Libonati: Well, thanks for having me. It's good to talk to you, Grant.
GR: You bet. So let me just start with some real basic stuff. We'll get into Central Current in a second, but let's just start with the context and the landscape that things like Central Current are entering into. Remind our listeners what's happened to local news coverage of public issues in recent years in Syracuse, but all over I think the same phenomenon has happened, just bring us up to date on that.
CL: Yeah. All over the country, I mean, you know, for decades now, local newspapers have closed, or shrunk. You know, it can be the Syracuse Post-Standard, but it's also Rochester Democrat and Chronicle, Buffalo News and, you know, it's not just in New York, it's everywhere. And there are communities all over the country, often smaller communities who are losing, you know, just simple local papers, that, you know, even had only 3 or 4 reporters before, and now you have none. Central Current, you know, kind of grew out of a national effort. Well, it grew from locally, but out of a national effort to expand reporting in communities that need more of it. And then, frankly, all communities need more reporting. This is not just a Syracuse issue, this is a nationwide issue, local newspapers are closing nationally.
GR: Yeah. I have a couple colleagues that study the media and they've really driven this point home when I have heard them speak. So, in fact, you know, you hear this phrase, 'food desert' a lot, but then you have these small towns that you were talking about that are being called 'news deserts', and I think what you spoke to illustrates that. So I'm going to go now to Syracuse, and I'm going to make a, I guess I'm going to make a confession here publicly, but one of my slight irritations over the years, is the Post-Standard's apparent reluctance to acknowledge that they've cut back on their local and regional news coverage in recent decades. Instead, they often point to, hey, we've got added content on our website and, you know, this is really it's better somehow. It seems a bit misleading to me. But anyway, you had some experience at the Post-Standard before you took on this position. I would be very interested to hear your views more specifically on how, because they're the, you know, they're the big players in our market, obviously, how their local news, especially public and political affairs news coverage has changed in recent years.
CL: You know, honestly, so I started there in late December of 2017.
GR: So a lot of this stuff had already happened.
CL: Yes, yes, absolutely. So, I came in kind of, I think I was at Syracuse University, and Newhouse while it was changing and honestly, you know, I think I kind of, I missed out on it in the way that, like, the local reader got to see it, right? Because, you know, during layoffs and cutbacks, I just wasn't as avid of a reader of the Post-Standard, and I was probably more reading the Democrat and Chronicle in Rochester, because that's, I'm from Rochester. And I used to take the newspaper to school every morning with me while I was in elementary school. So.
GR: Oh, wow.
CL: Yeah. So, and I think though, like, what has happened at the Post-Standard, you know, the Post-Standard cut early, right? They cut or they saw the tide coming and not the Post-Standard really advanced media and the Newhouse family. In some ways they were ahead of the curve in cutting, right? Because now newspapers are, you know, you see it at the Buffalo News, right? They're doing they're cutting now and I think in some ways it's like, it was take your medicine then or take your medicine now. And that's not to say that, yeah, it's just unfortunate that that's happened. And I think that the truth is, you know, in some ways what you, you don't necessarily, very obviously lose like common council coverage or legislature coverage, you lose issues coverage in some ways, right? Like, you think about, you know I was talking to someone, like, the Post-Standard years and years ago had a labor reporter, you know, well before, probably before I was born, honestly. And someone was complaining to me about that at one point. You know, obviously we have Sean Kirst and, you know, that wasn't a cut, you know, but Sean did leave and it was a loss to the community. I think that it's not necessarily the people that work there and the reporters that work there, but just in aggregate resources. And I think that, yeah, I can tell more of a broad story than a specific one, but I think, though I will say, and one of the benefits of the Post-Standard, I do think things have been very consistent since 2017, and that is the benefit of having taken kind of the medicine, so to speak, in the early 2010's, I'd say, is that it has steadied. And, you know, there is, I guess there's something to be said for that, right?
GR: Yeah, no, it makes sense, I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you're right. I didn't know that the Post-Standard had done this earlier than everybody else but, and you know, and then they cut back to the three days of sort of a genuinely new paper paper, and, yeah, but it's been steady since then. Well, so, let's then transition from that into Central Current. So give us a brief history of Central Current, you were present at the founding. What do you see as Central Current's place in the local media landscape, and what was the history of its story and its founding?
CL: Yeah. So the organization started with the board. So, you know, a couple of our founders, Tony Malavenda, Larry Bousquet got together, and I guess, Tony was like, you know, Tony Malavenda was somewhat unaware of the movement in nonprofit news, and he had kind of gone to a group of people that he knew, and he was like, you know, maybe this could be a nonprofit. And lo and behold, there's nonprofits all over the country, all over the place. And it gave them a bit of a blueprint, right? It made it a little more simple to kind of get that started. They hired Julie McMahon, former editor, you know, also a colleague, former colleague at the Post-Standard to kind of get it rolling.
GR: And I spoke to her when it was just starting up. So you're kind of like the second chapter now, but go ahead.
CL: And so we, I came over because, you know, what I told one of my editors when I was leaving, one of my editors at the Post-Standard was, you know, I was just kind of like, I want a bit of a feel like a college newsroom and not in all the college age, you know, activities or whatever, but trying things out. You know, that was what, when I was at the Daily Orange, you know, it was like, can we just do a story this way, because we we say so, you know? And I think in legacy media, you get locked into, well, we are the paper of record and we need to look and act like the paper of record. And that is not to say that we don't hold ourselves to a very high standard, but that is to say that that very high standard does not have to be a barrier to creativity. And to exist and to succeed, we have to be creative. And I think it was both freeing and backing myself into a corner where, no, I have to be creative. It is innovate or kind of die out, right? That is the mentality. And I wanted that, you know? That was a challenge to me. There is something to being the first reporter somewhere and that's what I was. I was going to set the tone for who we wanted to be even without editing power, right? Or editing responsibility. And that was, that's how I got here. And I think probably telling people that I wanted a feel of a college newsroom, and maybe it was not the way I should have said it, because, like, back then, because it's just a hard feeling to capture if you haven't been there recently. And, you know, when I left, I guess I'd been out of the D.O. for five-ish years and I thought that there were things that we did there that could apply to a professional, I mean, they are a professional newsroom, but, you know, something like a nonprofit.
GR: Yeah, no, it's interesting. And you're still here, and you don't look too hung over to me,
CL: (laughter)
GR: So I don't think you that you've gone in the bad direction there. I'm Grant Reeher, and you're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. My guest is Chris Libonati, he's the managing editor of the media outlet, Central Current. So, you mentioned Malavenda and Bousquet. Where does your funding come from now?
CL: Yes, we have a bunch of different places, but so it's about, we think about, on the business side, Maximilian Elye, our executive director thinks about it in about four pillars. So it's a grant funding, a sponsorships, major donors, and then grassroots donors, which is like membership, or we don't have subscriptions, necessarily, but that would be the small dollar donors, however you want to frame it.
GR: And what would be the relative size of these pillars? And, you know, and where does some of that grant funding come from?
CL: Yeah. So, major donors and grant funding tend to be, for us, tend to be the bigger fund, you know, I can't give you a percent off the top of my head, but those tend to be where much of our funding comes from. But, you know, we have support from the Gifford Foundation, Central New York Community foundation, the Allen Foundation. For a long time we've gotten support from the Inasmuch Foundation, which is, they had a national investigative reporting grant and they're based out of Oklahoma. And then we've received some national dollars, I think we're, report for America, the Miami Foundation, which is a big journalism funder. So our foundation contributions come from all over the country, mostly in Central New York though.
GR: Yeah, interesting. And so let's think about the last year and the outlet, Central Current. What do you think you would view as some of your greatest hits in the last year, or maybe specific areas? You mentioned topics before where you've concentrated a lot of coverage that is relatively missing elsewhere.
CL: I think that the place I want to start here, with Patrick McCarthy's reporting on whether it's transparency or the budget or surveillance at the Common Council. You know, I definitely think that Common Council and city issues are the Post-Standard's bread and butter in some ways, like they do genuinely great work on city issues. But I think that where we contributed was like, you know, whether it's lead in the water or what have you, like, those issues are critical, but also process matters, like how do we arrive at the decisions by which we fund the efforts to fix these issues? And Pat did some really great work around the budget and transparency. You know, the council meeting with all nine members in a caucus meeting, which, you know, there are some case law out there that says that that is improper. And, you know, not making a budget report that you commissioned public before you vote on the budget. You know, that's a, those are very basic, good government type issues that I think we dominated. But then, you know, Pat has also lead on surveillance coverage, broadly. Whether that's the police department's use of drones, license plate readers. And it's not that, you know, one answer to those questions is right or wrong, but process matters. You know, you create these processes to evaluate these technologies. And did we go through them? Who is advocating for and against them? It sounds very basic, it's very basic. And it could, the way I'm describing it can make your eyes glaze over, but it's like some of the most critical, it's demonstrative of how business happens, you know? And so, our city business happens and, yeah, I think his coverage on those issues has been really critical, has been really important. But from very specific kind of like stories, I think our most read story and my personal favorite story that I got to write last year was called, or we titled it, “Before the Deportation” which caught Jeremy Dottin-Reina, kind of as he was preparing to self-deport after ICE had followed him from his home to work. And it was the first reporting on that issue. Rick Reina, his husband, owned Syracuse Soap Works. And what, you know, our place in that story was to capture a deportation as it's in progress, essentially, which I have not really seen anywhere else. I mean, it's a hard thing to capture, right? Like someone has to tip you off that it's happening.
GR: Right.
CL: It all has to open up, you have to be there for it. And it was the first reporting on that incident. And I thought it was like, you know, I'm speaking about my own work, so I'm trying to have some humility here, but I thought it was powerful in what it showed. And everyone followed that story, right? The Post-Standard followed that story, CNY Central, (W)SYR. But, you know, and it wasn't just because it was about a business owner, it was because of the the time and place and how it happened. I think... try to make sure I catch everyone's work here, you know, Laura Robertson, on naturalization ceremonies being canceled, I think we're the first around here to report that.
GR: Yeah, I saw that one.
CL: It was a super important story. It's not just about, you know, whether or not the net thing happens, right? Where people become citizens. It's about the chaos that kind of gets caused around that process. And then, throw one more in there, our reporting on the payroll modernization snafu with the city, which, you know, resulted in some questions around about how $10 million got spent by the city. Again, process, right? Process was a big part of that, and result too. And we'll be covering the results, you know, as more payroll software gets instituted. But that drove some conversation around the mayoral election.
GR: Yeah, I remember that conversation for sure. You're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher, and I'm talking with Chris Libonati. The former Syracuse Post-Standard reporter, is the managing editor of Central Current, a Central New York media outlet. And we've been discussing that organization. So we, before the break, you were talking about some of the greatest hits, the stories that you guys brought to the foreground in the last year that were important. And I remember when I was talking to your, maybe your predecessor or I don't know what exactly her role was, but the the original founder, Julie, you mentioned her. One of the things that she said years ago was that the intention was, among other things, to make arts an area of particular concern for the organization. Just wondering if that is something that has continued, and if you're still think about that today?
CL: I think it's a long term goal. And I think that one of the things we realized over time, we do reader surveys, and people wanted more politics coverage, news coverage, hard hitting coverage. And, you know, I think that we've definitely turned more toward that for sure. We've tried to balance it a little bit with Sean Kirst, and obviously that's not the arts, I think that's more culture. And you know, the way I look at culture, right, is fabric of the community, like, are we getting to stories about that? And I point to a lot of the work Sean's done, but also Pat McCarthy on the Onondaga Nation's reintroduction of the buffalo and stuff like that. It's not true arts coverage, but it is culture coverage. And I think that, it's something that we would, I think we would like to sustain in time. But I think we realize that to make ourselves truly indispensable, we have to be able to do the hard hitting coverage well.
GR: Okay. And I'm very curious to know, what in your experience with this organization has been the biggest challenges you face? Because it's not easy, what you guys have done.
CL: No.
GR: So what have been the biggest challenges in both growing the effort and sustaining it, and how did you go about addressing them?
CL: I think first and foremost, explain to people why it's important to pay money to get this. And I know that, you know, you probably read quite frequently, but there are people who read less frequently and who see this as important, but then also are, you know, why should I give my $5, $10, $100 toward this effort? And I think explaining that importance is one of the hardest things, because there are a lot of great social service organizations around Syracuse that do important work to keep kids clothed, fed, what have you. And, you know, it's much easier to part with $5 or $10 to do something like that than to, I think, read about all the city and county problems, you know? And I think learning how to show people that, in fact, this work buttresses the work that other people do. It's not, as much of a challenge in terms of like, how do we do it? It's just that knowing that people need that explanation is the first step. The only way you can fix a problem is to know you have it, right? And to not have enough reporting kind of like feeds these other problems. So explaining that to folks, kind of getting them on that same playing field, that's probably like that first step. I know it sounds like a very broad, unspecific problem, but it is so critical to explaining what we do. And then, you know, simply like, making sure that philanthropy and, whether that's foundations or, you know, can sustain the, you know, we, Max and I talk all the time like, what is sustainable here? What is the level we can get to, what is a this year going five years down the line goal? You know, I think we've gotten into a place where we feel really comfortable, right? Not, you know, too comfortable or anything.
GR: Right, complacent, yeah.
CL: Yeah, not complacent. But at the same time, we're like, okay, today and tomorrow you know, the today's and tomorrow problems are kind of like slowly fading. It's more like, you know, how do we make it grow? Early on it was like, who are we going to be? I think that that was the real problem when I started, you know, and in some ways, we've figured out who we are. And that is only through consistently writing. We can only do that by telling stories in the similar way time and time again, you kind of, I think people generally know what they're going to get from us now. Which is not true, that was not true when I in June of 2022 when I started publishing my first stories. And in some ways we are a very different organization today than we were then. We had to let ourselves grow a little bit and figure out who we were to be able to tell people who we are. You know, you can't really tell a story about yourself unless unless you have, like, a coherent version of that. I think that was one of the other challenges that we've since tackled, but it's it's always a consistent thing because you still have to tell the stories the same way going forward.
GR: Sure. If you've just joined us, you're listening to the Campbell Conversations. I'm Grant Reeher and my guest is Chris Libonati, the managing editor of Central Current. So, this one may be a little bit of a, I don't know, nasty question, but I feel like I have to ask it.
CL: Yeah.
GR: Along the way, did you get support or resistance or neither, from the Post-Standard and syracuse.com?
CL: I think we just coexist, is my answer. You know, we have, I think if you read all of our stories, we love to give everyone credit when they report something before we do. I think that's really important. That's ethical, that's the right thing to do. You will find their links throughout our work, and we will always do that because it's important for the reader. They should know source material, right? You know, we don't operate in a vacuum and neither do they. And I think that that's a critical thing to understand if you're an editor of a publication, if you're a reporter at a publication. And so we make every effort to make clear that, you know, there's another news organization in town and they're doing critical work, too. We would never short someone on their work.
GR: You are a very diplomatic editor. I can tell that because, I will maybe say this for you, I don't know, but I will say it's been my experience, one of the things I would knock them on a little bit is acknowledging other outlets. It's almost like if it didn't happen there, it didn't exist. But you're articulating a different way to see things.
CL: (laughter)
GR: You're not making that criticism, I said it, not you. But anyway, yeah, very diplomatic. So, let me ask you this. Do you have an idea what stories you're going to be, Central Current is going to be focusing on next year? You know, I do get the Post-Standard every Sunday and they did, you know, they put out, like, here are the ten things we think people need to be following. Do you have an idea of what you guys are going to do?
CL: Yeah. So I have, so I think, I was just talking, we were talking to our reporters about this with Max about this, you know, what are we really, who are we going to be in 2026? And I think housing has always been important to us, the policy side of housing, I think that will be important again.
GR: It's going to be critical.
CL: Yes. It's always critical. And I think that it's been, housing has been an issue here since I was in college. You know, I remember when Matthew Desmond, the author of a book, “Evicted”, came to speak at SU. And that was when, you know, I was a student and we still see a lot of housing being such a critical issue. So that will be in the mix is one of our kind of, like, big issues. But I think beyond that, elections will be big. And everything, you know, that we talk about including housing and some of these other issues will affect elections, but NY22 is on the table, county leg(islators), again, is on the table, statewide offices. So, you know, I think that that's going to be a big focus for us. And beyond that, we're trying to figure out how to move our resources around to make sure that immigration is a consistent issue that we cover.
GR: Good, yeah.
CL: It's the issue kind of our time in some ways, right? The last couple of years, at least, the last year. And their, the Post-Standard has done some great reporting on immigration. And there can only be more great reporting on immigration. I think that, whether it's policy or the human side of stories, I think that's really critical. And, so, yeah, there's I'd say three of the biggest issues that we're going to hit this year.
GR: Good. Those are good choices, it strikes me. Well, we've got about two minutes left and I want to try to squeeze in two questions, if I could. They may be a little bit different from the other ones, but, and this first one may be hard for you, but I wanted to get your take on this. If you had to pick one journalist in Syracuse, now I recognize that you, as you said, you arrived here at the university, doing my math, around 2013. But if you, based on your knowledge and your historical knowledge you've developed since then, if you had to pick one journalist in Syracuse who's been most integral to the life, the understanding and even the success of the area, working in any of the mediums, who would it be?
CL: Well, that's tough, I am, so, I can I give you like a 1a, 1b? Is that okay?
GR: Yeah sure, absolutely, just do it quickly.
CL: Yeah. Sean Kirst without a doubt, but I'm going to give you my favorite, and that's John O'Brien. When I was in college, I read John O'Brien and I respect the work he's done. And he was so critical to what the Post-Standard did, and I just loved his work.
GR: Remind us what his beat was.
CL: Yeah. So, John was an investigative reporter. He did investigations on the Onondaga County District Attorney's office.
GR: I remember that one.
CL: Some of the, oh, man, the murder case up in Oswego. He did some incredible work around that, but mostly around, you know, coverage of policing and stuff like that. And he was incredible.
GR: Okay, and then the last one, I'm only literally giving you 2 or 3 sentences, but, big picture looking forward, future media landscape in Syracuse. Are we going to see more Central Currents? It's hard for me to imagine giving all the funding challenges. What do you think is going to happen in the next ten years or so?
CL: That's a great question. Honestly, my biggest hope is that what's here grows, that's all of us. I think that keeping it at the level it's at right now is probably most likely. But hopefully we grow and do more great work.
GR: Certainly we want to avoid becoming a news desert, that's for sure.
CL: Yes.
GR: That was Chris Libonati. Chris, I want to thank you again for making the time to speak with me. And I also want to wish you good luck in continuing to develop this media outlet. I think it is important. And again, it's called Central Current. I think the area needs all the help I can get, so thanks so much.
CL: Awesome. Thank you, Grant.
GR: You bet. You've been listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media, conversations in the public interest.
