Program transcript:
Grant Reeher: Welcome to "The Campbell Conversations", I'm Grant Reeher. Last week we heard from Onondaga County Executive Ryan McMahon. My guests today are the principal leaders of the county legislature and the Democratic Majority caucus there. Nicole Watts is the county legislative chair. Chairwoman Watts is in her first term of service and represents the 9th legislative district. Nodesia Hernandez is the legislature's majority leader. She's in her second term of service, and she represents the 17th district. Chairwoman Watts, majority leader Hernandez, welcome to the program.
Nodesia Hernandez: Thank you for having us.
GR: Really appreciate you making the time. And majority Leader Hernandez, I want to start with you. I wanted to ask about the transition for the Democrats from being in the longtime in the minority now to all of a sudden being in the majority party. It was quite a switch in the last election. Did it take some kind of reframing of a mindset, you know, to get out of sort of the party of opposition mentality? I've heard that from other legislatures in other places, and I didn't know if that would be something that was affecting you.
NH: So, like you said, I'm in my second term. So, we did two years in the minority, and then now you know, being in majority, you have to remember that you have some control now, right? And you have to weigh that you have some power play. And it takes the mindset of doing a lot of the heavy lifting in the minority and now being able to actually get some work done. And when I say that I mean, in the minority there were five of us, now there's ten of us. So having the five of us, it was a little bit, you know, easier as far as whipping those votes. Having the ten of us now, it's a little bit more difficult to bring all the minds together and making sure that we're all on the same page. But the transition part is making sure that we let our counter-partners know, our colleagues know, that we're here to get the work done. And it's a good thing to get the work done together. And we have to remind ourselves that we're often told that we need to collaborate, but in the situation we're in now, we need those to collaborate with us. It’s a good thing to collaborate with us, because we need to get some work done. (unintelligible) work together and get it done.
GR: And just to follow up quickly, so, in the opposition, you know, you're always thinking, okay, how do I criticize this, how do I sort of make a reasoned argument against it or, you know, push back? Well, now you've got to build things. So, did that, was there a kind of a mental shift that you and your colleagues needed to go through?
NH: Definitely. Because it went kind of from always defending our position, right, to now having defend our position, right? So, when I say that, I say things, I can give you a quick example, in the minority we were often having to defend why we wanted memorializing resolutions, right? Now, being in the majority, we can say we want these memorializing resolutions because it's what we need. So that mindset went from making sure that we let our colleagues know that we need them to be on board with certain things that we need to get done, and those things, the things that you weren’t on board with before, but now it's a chance. So, you know, maybe you might want to change for the better yourself and be on board and get some work done.
GR: That makes sense. Chairwoman Watts, the big picture question for you. How do you see the role of the county legislature in the governance of the county? Where does it fit into that that puzzle?
Nicole Watts: When I talk to neighbors, they often say, you're a what? A legislator? County? What does that do, right? And I often say it's the congress of the county, right, where the lawmakers, I think another really key piece that the legislature represents is representation. You know, we are each engaged with unique districts throughout the county, a broader geographic area with people that have very different experiences. That representation piece becomes all the more important. And so, when we're coming to decisions that are being put in front of us, we are all coming to the table with our district in mind, which might have a little bit of a different perspective, right? If you're representing Clay, where Micron's happening, it's a bit different than my district that's down the highway, where our poverty statistics look different than it looks in Clay, right? But we also are both significantly impacted by some of these things that are happening. So, I think that the legislature has a keen role in terms of representation of the people and the different voices that make up our county across the region. And then we're entrusted with responsibilities that have to do with the making of laws, whether those are like, laws as we traditionally think of them, or resolutions that are adopting particular practices. And of course, the very, very big piece, which is the budget, in terms of working through the budget and how the public resources are being utilized to serve the needs of the people of our county. We also this year have been focusing a lot of energy on making sure that we are not only equipped with the information about what's happening at the county, but we have an accountability just like it is at every level of government. That's why we were set up in the structure that we were, in our system of government was to have checks and balances. And so that other key piece of accountability, I believe it's really important for us to know, at least at a cursory level, what is happening across the many departments and the many different services and things that we offer. And so, we've been calling in a lot of the departments, actually, all of them, we've said that every department needs to come in to present before the legislature before the budget time, so that we have at least a starting awareness of how things are going, how the money is being spent, public monies, and so that we can enter the budget with a level of awareness and have an opportunity to ask meaningful questions that aren't trying to fit into the pressure cooker that is the budget process. So, I think that's the other key role, right? So, accountability, representation, lawmaking and the budget.
GR: Have you had to think about, I know you're in your first term so this is all new to you, but have you and the legislature had to think about fundamental change in your role? Because before the legislature was Republican and you had a, you know, obviously very outspoken, strong minded county executive, and so the tendency I think was to go along, whereas now are you thinking about, okay, we need to be a reactive body as well as a proactive body?
NW: Absolutely. The analogy I found to be helpful is a dance, right? So, the legislature historically has operated a bit like a waltz where you had a leader and the legislature kind of danced with the county executive. And now we have to dance the tango.
GR: (laughter)
NW: Which requires both parties to actively be dancing together. And sometimes there's a little tension in it too, right? And so, I think that we are learning that though. We've already done a few dances together where we didn't necessarily want to move in the same directions, and we've been navigating our way through that. I think it's important for people to see and experience the legislature as a strong and representative voice of their, what they want to see in government, right? We are not all one particular swath, we are not one particular politic. Whether you're looking at us as a legislature, even within our caucus, right, we represent different districts, different perspectives, and then that extends throughout our county government. And it's extremely important for the legislature to be its own entity, to have its own voice and to be respected as such, because we've been entrusted with a particular role that is distinctly different than what the county executive is responsible for. And it's really important for us to lean into that role. And I do think that we're doing that in a pretty distinctly different way, in terms of how we're hosting our meetings and some of the things that we're doing than had been previously done.
GR: And Majority Leader Hernandez, I know it's early days so far for the party, but what do you think have been your biggest successes so far as a caucus?
NH: The caucus right now, you know, the transition is going well because right now we're in a situation where we're actually getting work done, right? In the minority it was a lot of battling back and forth battle between the minority and the majority. But now I see our transition as us getting work done and collaboratively getting work done. I like to say, I was a teacher for 17 years, and I feel like I still have that educator hat on, right? I’m educating folks to learning and knowing what that transition looks like, what needs to get done, and at the same time, like Chairwoman Watts said, there's 17 of us, right? In my legislative caucus there's ten of us, and we do represent districts. And we also have to represent those districts in a way that we make sure our constituents are happy, because we do have to get reelected. But while we represent in those districts, we have to also make sure we represent the county as a whole. And that's the hard part, because representing the county as a whole and representing your district sometimes can have different ideas of what county government looks like and what is necessary to make all of our lives happy and successful.
GR: That makes sense. Chairwoman Watts, back to you. I wanted to push you a little bit on this relationship with the county executive. You would be really, I suppose, more than anyone else, the primary point of contact for a lot of things. So, what has your working relationship with County Executive McMahon been like so far? How would you characterize it?
NW: So, I think back to the analogy I use of the tango. We're both learning how to dance a new dance. It's been 48 years, and certainly the entirety of the current county executive's term has been dancing with a Republican legislature. And so having a Democrat led legislature is, some new things are required, right? And then I am also a new legislator in general. So, we are all learning on the job, as they say. But I think that we have had some good conversations on some different things we disagree on, and we are going to continue to disagree on some fundamental things, but I believe that we are going to continue to try to work together to find our way forward. We have the same exact county that we're serving, and so it's important for, at the end of the day, for the people of the county to have us doing the business of the county. So, I think neither of us are afraid of hard conversations that need to be had. And I have found him to be responsive, when I call him, he answers. And I'm grateful for that. I hope he would reflect the same back to me. We've been able to meet as a whole leadership with him on a monthly basis. And so, I'm hopeful that that will continue to be the case and that as we get more and more practiced at this dance, that we'll be able to accomplish the things that we want and need to see for our county.
GR: You mentioned that you have things, obviously, that you disagree on, and I know that historically, one of those was the aquarium and the Democrats were one of, you know, the main voice of criticism there. Are there other big policy issues that you think are, where there's most disagreement? What would those be?
NW: I think, generally speaking, we see the importance of transparency differently a lot of times. So, you know, sometimes I think transparency as I would define it as let's get as much as possible in the light, because things operate typically more honestly. And this is public policy, public money, public everything. But it does slow things down to do things in a more transparent, community, engaged way. And so, you know, I think sometimes the way that we see the value of that or practice that has been a bit different. And so I think it's been a very real growing pain, for there to be more departmental presentations and for there to be some more, you know, kind of, there was the ShoppingTown town hall the other day, you know, where the where sometimes the public are gathering together to ask some questions that might slow the process down, but I think are extremely important in terms of community involvement in our decision making. And so, I think that's some of the tension points, is kind of the level of transparency that we are calling for and the way that we're calling for it will continue to be an opportunity area. The aquarium is included in that in terms of where the money is coming from, that we weren't going to be spending more public money on that. That was a decision that was made prior to my term, it has been reiterated, and yet there's questions about whether that's, you know, been held true to, and what's actually going on there with the aquarium. Some of the industrial wastewater treatment, is another major question that we have related to just Micron, and we are all wanting Micron to be successful, we are all wanting the economic development drivers that we hope will impact positively all of our community, but just making sure that we're doing our due diligence to take our responsibility in that, and kind of the necessary conversations and decision making processes that need to go into that, is another key piece that I think we've had some sticking points on. And the last one I'll touch on is this executive order, if you may have seen, the executive orders that have been coming out for several years now related to migrants and immigrants, it was related to the New York City bussing of folks up.
GR: Right. You're talking about, to put the county on like an emergency footing on that.
NH: Yeah.
NW: Exactly. And, so, you know, we've done a little run around on the language, language still doesn't look the way that I want it to, I hope we will continue to work on that. But to me, it's extremely important to the people of our county for us to be very careful about the language we use in things like that. And so those are a few of the kind of sticking points that we've encountered so far. Like I said, I continue to find him to pick up his phone and to have the conversation. And now the key is just getting to where we really need to get to.
GR: You're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher, and I'm talking with Nodesia Hernandez and Nicole Watts. Nodesia Hernandez is the majority leader of the Onondaga County Legislature and Nicole Watts is the chair of the legislature, they're both Democrats. Majority Leader Hernandez, I wanted to ask you this question about the fact that we've got this strange quirk in the electoral calendar that you just had an election not too long ago, and, again, early days for the Democrats being in the majority, but you've all got to go face the voters, all districts have to go face the voters again this November. I was wondering, does that complicate your challenges as a majority leader, particularly in the sense that, like, it puts more pressure on you, we've got to produce by this fall, even though it's an artificially short time frame?
NH: So, yeah. So, what I like to say is, you know, we're not in a marathon right now, we're in the sprint. And that's where it is quick, right? We don't have time to waste because tomorrow's not promising anyone, right? We didn't have an idea to know that we were going to be in the majority. So, we know and we are hopeful that we keep the majority. But we have a short time frame to get the work done. And, I like what Nicole was, Chairwoman Watts was speaking about because I feel like sometimes right now we want the things done correctly the first time. We want to get the things done and get them right. We don't want to have to backtrack and correct things that we're doing as far as policy, dealing with the Micron and dealing with the aquarium, a lot of times folks are saying, are you for Micron? Yes, we're for Micron, we're just not in a rush. But we are in a rush because we are all running for reelection. You might not know, but this year I have an opponent, for the two years that I ran, I ran unopposed. So, I am being looked at a lot. Also being looked at as a whole, because we're in the majority, so people want to see, they're excited, they want to know what we're going to do, what we're going to get done, what policies are we going to pass? How does it look like with the minority changing to the majority and going from Republican to Democrat, is the work still going to continue to be the same? Every day what I'm doing is making sure that I be respectful of all of the legislators in my caucus, right? Make sure that they get the policies passed and the support that they need to represent their districts. At the same time, I have to make sure I'm representing my district. So, there's a lot of heavy lifting going on, because of while I'm supporting ten districts, I'm also a part of those districts. And I have a unique district myself, I have the town of DeWitt and I also have the east side of Syracuse. I have a district that consists of apartments that are really now impoverished and being demolished because of their state. And then I have a district of residential homes, and I have a district where a lot of our seniors, you know, passing along and their houses are being, you know, put up for sale and who buys those homes. And there's a lot going on, I have a college in my district. So at the same time, while I'm making sure that we pass the policies that we need to pass while we get the work done, that we're also respectful of represent in our district and our constituents because we have to remember, that's what also helps us get reelected, making sure our constituents are happy in our district, as a county also as a whole.
GR: Well, you were talking about the diversity in the county of different points of view, and it sounds like you've got that diversity baked right into your own district, so you're probably a good person to be thinking about that.
NH: Yes, I do. Like I said, I have two colleges, I do represent some of Syracuse University, the whole Lemoyne College. Like I said, I have apartment complexes in my college district. I represent residential tenants, I represent homeowners, I represent now what we call our college students that are not living on campus, but are now living in our community as well.
GR: Well, I've got to ask you this question, because you mentioned in passing there that you folks didn't expect to be in the majority. And I don't think any of us did, you know, political analysts, anybody. And I just, I know you could speak for a very long time about this, but briefly, if you could, could you just take me back quickly to that night? And was there like, was it like a, oh crap, you know, this is happening or oh my God, this is unbelievable? I mean, it's, you know, I apologize to Duke fans, when I say this, but it's probably like that UConn-Duke game, you know, at the end of that game. But anyway, what was it like?
NH: (unintelligible) Syracuse and UConn because I do bleed orange. But that night was amazing. So, I remember defending myself that night to a couple of reporters and I was like, wait a minute, hold up, you don't know we're going to get the majority because we were always hopeful. So, we went out, we tried to look for some candidates, made sure we ran great candidates, made sure we supported the candidates. We utilized our time in the minority as a time to make sure that we also supported candidates and got some folks elected. We were hopeful for a couple of seats. We didn't know we were going to get all of those seats. I remember walking into now, Mayor Sharon Owens’ watch party, and I remember John Mannion coming up to me because I was in transition when it happened, because I was trying to be respectful and go to all of the candidates events and OCDC events. And I walked in the room and, John, Congressman John Mannion said, you made the majority, and he just started screaming and excitement on his face. And I looked at the screen like, wait a minute, we're in the majority. And I just remember looking around and looking at everyone and the excitement on everyone's faces. I remember one of his security guards would clap and I'm like, he doesn't even realize what happened. But we were just so excited to know that we did something that we've been trying to do for over 50 years. I sat on many of the Flip the County Blue committees and, you know, for maybe like four years now, and I remember, our past legislator, Mary Kuhn and all the work that she put in. So, the excitement right there, a lot brought tears to my eyes to just know that she wasn't here to see this. And this was amazing. It was a proud moment, just a proud moment of we got the work done, but now let's get the work done. (laughter)
GR: The other work done. Chairwoman Watts, I wanted to ask you this, other big picture question was, when you think about the future of the county, you mentioned already, Micron, but what do you think are the longer term problems and challenges for the county, the most concern you? I mean, Micron obviously is a great opportunity, but it carries concerns as well and maybe you want to speak to those, but either those or other ones, the big things out there that kind of from a county perspective keep you up at night?
NW: For me, A-number-one is housing, where it intersects with transportation, housing and transportation. We have, in all of our districts we have different types of housing issues going on, Leader Hernandez referred to some of them that are happening in her district. In my district, we have a number of people who are smashed into apartments that are two bedrooms and they've got, you know, nine people living in a two bedroom apartment, and they are unable to find affordable housing to move their family into. They might have sewage in the basement, but that is still just the reality that they have to live in because of the lack of quality, affordable housing throughout our county. We have statistics in our county that have to do with childhood poverty and housing and transportation has a tremendous role to play, along with other things like childcare subsidies and other issues that we really need to address. But I think that we have an opportunity to play a really unique and important role in addressing the housing and transportation issue across the county to work with local municipalities, where a lot of these decisions are being made to play our unique role. So, I am very hopeful that we can work together to make that happen. It's going to take all of us to lift the ship, the municipalities, the county government as a whole and the state and other parties as well. But I am very concerned, most especially about our most vulnerable people when it comes to this housing and transportation issue. The other issue that I am in, just very much, as you said, keeps me up at night, is how our people are going to benefit from the things that are coming to us. When I was running, initially, it was, on this platform of the things that happened to our community should benefit first, the people who already call the, you know, the most local areas home, right? That if it's happening in our neighborhood, it should positively benefit the people who live in our neighborhood, first and foremost. If it's happening in our county, like Micron, it should benefit the people who call our community home, first and foremost. We are going to be welcoming other people coming into our community too and be welcomed, right? But we need to make sure that there's pathways into the employment opportunities and other economic benefits that are ensuring that our people, many of whom have been left behind because of economic disinvestment, that there is some equity at play to ensure that they kind of get some first bite of the apple on accessing the economic opportunities that are headed our way. And again, I believe that the county really has a leading role in making sure that that happens. So those are two of the, to me, things that we must, they're a must, we have to do something about that, not only this year but in the coming years.
GR: Just listening to what you said and thinking back on my conversation last week with the county executive, I think there is some real overlap between the two of you on this intersection, interplay between housing, transportation and poverty. And so that may be a place where, you know, the two institutions can go forward. We've only got about a minute and a half left, but, Majority Leader Hernandez, I wanted to finish with you, probably, and ask you this question that is a follow up on the Micron discussion that Chairwoman Watts was talking about. And that is, I know that one of the big concerns about Micron, well, first of all, it was a big concern with I-81, and I think it's only gotten more of a concern since Micron. Is the issue of, and I'm thinking of your district in particular here, of gentrification and also the concern that there will be people who will be left behind by this? And so, while the city as a whole might look strong, it may exacerbate inequalities that are already pretty severe in the city and in the region. I'm sure that's been something that's on your mind. Can you speak a little bit about that? And I'm sorry, only about a minute to talk about that.
NH: Yes. Thank you for that question because, you know, as I mentioned before, the apartment buildings on Fayette Street are going to be demolished, right? And we were speaking about ShoppingTown Mall, I was speaking about what's coming to ShoppingTown Mall, but speaking about industrial businesses that are going to support Micron. So, as we see not just having the Clay and Great Northern Mall support the new industrial businesses, we're all now moving into different areas, specifically DeWitt. And we know DeWitt is far away from where Micron is going to be located. But knowing that we're already setting ShoppingTown up to support Micron, it brings you to that gentrification, right? I have constituents that are concerned when these buildings go up on Fayette Street, are they going to be allowed to move back in, or is it going to be a situation where you have the college kids move in? So, right now I'm just really concerned about making sure that when we do this and we get it right, and we make sure we benefit all constituents and we make sure that they have a place at the table, and we just not focus on the industrial part, but we focus on the residential part.
GR: I understand, okay, we'll have to leave it there. That was Nodesia Hernandez and Nicole Watts. Chairwoman Watts, Majority Leader Hernandez, thanks so much for taking the time to talk with me, really appreciate it.
NW: Our pleasure.
GR: You've been listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media, conversations in the public interest.
