Program transcript:
Grant Reeher: Welcome to the Campbell Conversations. I'm Grant Reeher. Well, the cliché is that all good things must come to an end, and that's the occasion for my conversation today with two term city of Syracuse Mayor Ben Walsh. By the time you hear this, he will be former mayor. But today is his second to last day in office. It's fitting, perhaps, that there's a blizzard blowing outside our windows. It's Syracuse, after all. Mayor Walsh, welcome to the program, it's good to see you again and I'm glad we were able to get to speak one more time.
Ben Walsh: So am I, Grant. Thanks for having me.
GR: Well, I really appreciate it. So let me just start, I want to start by giving you a brief victory lap. Just briefly list some of the things that you're the most proud of accomplishing while you've been in office these eight years.
BW: Well, there's a lot, Grant. We've worked really hard over the past eight years. And what I think one thing that I'd like to point out is that, you know, oftentimes you look at administrations and, you know, they might focus on just the small day to day, city service issues. And then others that are focused, you know, primarily on big picture issues, I think we really did both. We spent a lot of time addressing core city services, which is our what taxpayers pay for. But we took some really big swings, too. So, on the city services side, I think about, you mentioned the snow, you know, our fleet, our snowplow fleet is in the best shape it's been in decades. And, you know, we've invested a lot into the fleet, into technology to improve our snow operations. We are paving more roads than we've paved in decades. In 2017, the year before we started, the city paved about four miles of roads. And when it's all said and done, we will have paved over 100 miles of roads over the past eight years. Our municipal sidewalk program, repairing, we've repaired or reconstructed over 40 miles of sidewalks. We plow a lot of sidewalks now in the winter, our new street light network. So a lot of things that people notice, you know, not to mention our new trash and recycling service. While at the same time, you know, advocated for the community grid for the 81 project which is well underway, built thousands of new units of housing. So, again, really, really proud that we were able to do all that.
GR: Yeah, that's a good starting list. And obviously, as you've just pointed out, you've accomplished a number of things that you can point to as, you know, real tangible achievements for the city. I was wondering, though, if you had to pick one thing either concrete or more abstract, that you would hang your hat on, let's say, you know, let's go fast forward and we're looking back now in the historical assessment of you as mayor. What would you want it to be and why?
BW: I think a couple of things come to mind. Where I always start is with with our team here in city government. We've assembled just an incredible group of dedicated public servants that are incredibly passionate about the city, are highly competent and capable, could be doing many other things, and are choosing to serve the public because they believe in what we're doing here. And so between the team, and then I think, you know, in terms of, it's hard to pick any one of those things that I mentioned, but I think what we've done with housing in the neighborhoods I think will stand the test of time. We built more homes, actual homes, single family homes, as well as apartments, than the city has in decades. And you drive down certain streets and certain neighborhoods. I think about, you know, you drive down to the south side and look, you know, at Baker and Woodland Ave, South State Street, parts of Colvin, we've transformed those neighborhoods that hadn't seen investment, again, in decades. While at the same time, certainly you look downtown and along the Near East Side, heading up to University Hill, all of the new apartment buildings. Again, we've physically transformed these neighborhoods, but I think, you know, in doing so, really built back some of the fabric of the community that, again, will last for decades.
GR: And this next question isn't so much about policy accomplishments, necessarily, but I did want to ask you, was there a time in your eight years where this job just felt the best to you?
BW: I thought you were going in a different direction than that.
GR: (laughter) We'll get there, we'll get there.
BW: Okay, so I think, you know, I will say that the recent weeks after a really challenging final year, have been really gratifying to be able to have some time to reflect on our accomplishments and to hear from a lot of constituents that are really grateful for the service. It's it's been nice to finish out that way. At the same time, again, getting back to housing, I think some of the best moments for me were the times when we were cutting a ribbon on a new home and more importantly, handing over the keys to a new homeowner. In many cases, these are, you know, first time homeowners, the first of their family to own a home. And, you know, I remember one in particular woman who had lived in public housing her whole life, who was able to buy one of the new homes that we built with Home Headquarters. Those are those moments where you just, you realize that you're having a tangible impact on someone's life that, again, will have a generational impact for their family.
GR: You know, one of the things that struck me when I was thinking about these last couple questions I've asked you, what I would think about them, and this is pretty abstract, but I just wanted to get your thoughts about it. One of the things I would put in the plus column for you is that you've had to deal with two really, really difficult, important people. You had to deal with Andrew Cuomo and you had to deal with Donald Trump, at least the administrations.
BW: Right.
GR: And that's not easy. But you seem to handle that with some grace and patience, but also not just folding over.
BW: Right.
GR: Could you talk a little bit about navigating that tightrope?
BW: Yeah. So, you know, I'll start with Governor Cuomo. Well, I'll start with the fact that, you know, when I ran in 2017, one of my major platforms was collaboration and partnership. And I would specify that when I talk about those things, it doesn't mean that you have to get along with everybody all the time. But I think you try to treat, I've tried to treat everyone with with dignity and respect. And what I've always said is, if you sit down at the table, you can disagree, and you can get up and walk away, but you always have to come back to the table, and I think we've done that. With Governor Cuomo, obviously his relationship with the previous city administration was strained. And so I went out of my way to develop a strong working relationship with him. I think that that really helped us, certainly on 81. I remember you know, going to him, and making the pitch that the time for studies and analysis were over, that we were never going to achieve full consensus, but all the signs, the data pointed to the community grid being the right option. And he challenged me to show him that in the form of support from various stakeholders, and we were able to do that. And I think that helped him get over the hump with the community grid. Also, I think about the STEAM school, you know, I spent, there was a particular event at the airport where I was with, at the time, County Executive Mahoney, who obviously had a great relationship with the governor. And she kind of set me up, teed it up for me and said, hey, governor, you know, mayor's got this really exciting idea for this STEAM school and I pitched it to him and he was excited about it. And ultimately that led to an $85 million investment from the state. So, again, I invested in that relationship. I think it paid dividends. And as it relates to President Trump, never had the chance to meet him. You know, I've not been shy about articulating some of the challenges that the city has faced as a result of policies that have come out of his administration. But I've also gone, you know, tried not to, you know, to put a stick in his eye. You know, in some cases, just, you know, staying off the radar is all you can do, and I've tried to do that.
GR: Yeah. No, I think you've got that exactly right. You're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher and I'm speaking with two term Syracuse Mayor Ben Walsh and he is in his final week as mayor. So here's a couple of questions that I think you did anticipate. First one, what's the biggest thing you feel like you've left on the table, that with the benefit of a do over, you might have gotten over the finish line that you didn't get over the finish line?
BW: Well, I think I appreciate the way you asked it, because I really do feel that everything that I set out to accomplish, we at least if we didn't finish, we got started and will be completed. I really can't think of any one thing where we just completely whiffed. But, you know, I think, I talk a lot about housing in this interview, it's been a priority. The challenge with housing is the city doesn't build housing. We need partners. And we can, you know, identify resources and we've done that. But we're we're relying on our partners for that. And those partners are reliant, oftentimes on complicated financing that is really hard to pull together. So a number of our big housing projects have just been slower than I would have liked. Starting with the East Adams project, in partnership with the Housing Authority. You know, I've made my frustrations with the Housing Authority known. We've been able to make some changes at the board, and I hope they continue to make internal changes to prepare themselves for what they've undertaken. But, you know, we got phases one and two closed and underway before we were done, and I'm happy about that. You know, the Maria Regina project up on the north side, again, just has not moved as quickly as I would like. I think it is going to happen. They'll probably close down their financing in the first quarter of 2026. So, you know, those things, just that the urgency in the timing of some of those projects I would have liked to see move faster. But, you know, to your point about some difficult things we faced, you know, sandwiched in those eight years is two years of a global pandemic and that undoubtedly slowed some things down. But again, I think everything we set out to get going, we at least got off the ground.
GR: Well, in a related vein, and this question isn't really about policy miscues necessarily, but was there a time when the job did not feel good, when the job felt the hardest?
BW: Couple of things come to mind. First, any time there was a tragedy in the community, violence, in particular, loss of life, those were brutal situations, every one of them. And, you know, I've said that those are the moments where I feel the most powerless as mayor because there isn't a whole lot that I can do that to take the pain away from the family members and friends of those that we've lost. But, you know, for me, that's why I tried at a minimum to be present whenever I could, whether it was at a crime scene or at the hospital, because sometimes just my presence was the only thing that I could offer, but it was, I think, better than the nothing. You know, the other specific time that I remember, I mentioned the pandemic, when we, before the ARPA legislation was passed, and we were, we had lost our, a significant portion of our largest source of revenue, sales tax, which is what happens when you shut the economy down. And we had to put together a contingency budget. And I just, I knew how painful that was going to be and how all the things that, you know, ultimately, we were able to accomplish in terms of city services and staffing, for a while, it didn't look like we were going to be able to do that, and that was that was pretty bleak. But the ARPA funding was a was a lifeline and I think we took full advantage of it.
GR: How easy or hard was it for you to decide to run for a second term?
BW: It was easy. The first decision was the was a hard one, because as we've talked about before, I really, even coming from the family that I did, I didn't envision myself being in elected office. I did envision myself being in public service. And so, that was a, I had to push myself way out of my comfort zone for that one and had to make sure that my family was along for the ride, starting with my wife, Lindsay. And so that was a leap of faith and I still look back on it and shake my head and think, what the heck were you thinking? But, I'm glad I did. And once I did, I knew that I was in the right place at the right time and so I never hesitated from running for reelection. But, you know, people ask me about a third term and, you know, I got into this knowing that the best I was going to be able to do was eight years, and so I haven't really thought about, you know, what-ifs as it relates to term limits or a third term. I'm really happy with what I've done, and I'm ready for a change.
GR: You're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher, and I'm talking with Syracuse Mayor Ben Walsh, and this is his exit interview with me as he finishes up his second term. So I've cleaned out offices a few times, always seems like there's a moment when you pick something up that sparks a memory or a thought that speaks to something broader. A quick example for my own experience is to give you time to think about this. But when I was moving out of my office as Campbell director at the Maxwell School a couple of years ago, I found in my drawer a five year service pen that a friend gave me, and when he did not get tenure and he left it sitting on my desk when he left the university. And that reminded me of the need to appreciate contingency. You know, that nothing's for certain. And I'm just wondering if you had any of those moments recently when you're cleaning out your office.
BW: Yeah. Well, I'll note that I'm not in my office right now. I'm in a small little office in the mayor's suite because I wanted to make sure the office was cleaned out and maintenance is in there now, painting and getting it ready for for mayor elect Owens.
GR: That's conscientious of you.
BW: I try.
GR: (laughter)
BW: So I went through that process, it was brutal. I spent a couple of weekends in there. But I think kind of similar to your story. So, the center drawer in my desk, it was kind of like the, you know, a little bit of the junk drawer that everybody has in their kitchen. But it's where I put all my notes that I thought were worth keeping. And, you know, I was feeling a lot of urgency to get things cleaned out quickly. But once I had that drawer and I saved it to the end because I knew it was going to happen, I just spent a lot of time going back through the notes, and, you know, they were snapshots in time, some really difficult times, some really great times. And just reading, reading those notes from some very close friends and family, but also some, you know, prominent public figures like Governor Cuomo and like Governor Hochul, was really special and bittersweet.
GR: Did your predecessor leave you, like, a note in your drawer the way presidents sometimes do?
BW: She, Mayor Miner did. And I'm glad you reminded me, because I have to do that before tomorrow.
GR: Yeah!
BW: And I do plan on doing that for mayor elect Owens. Yeah, Mayor Miner wrote me a nice note and, you know, included, combined a little bit of humor with with some heartfelt thoughts and that's, I plan to do the same for Sharon.
GR: Well, I'll leave the contents of those things personal, because that's the way they're intended to be. What is the best piece of advice that your father, who was both a city councilor and a long time congressman for this area, I think he served 20 years, as I recall, what was the best piece of advice he gave you about being an elected office or about maybe campaigning for elected office?
BW: Well, my coworkers will tell you, I quote my dad a lot. And so, he's pretty prolific with his quotables. Some that immediately come to mind, I'm not sure what the best was, they, kind of depends on the circumstance, but, you know, he's a big, he would always say, go with your gut, he's a big gut guy. And so, I think about that a lot. The advice that I give to young people, something that he gave to me, you don't have to know what you want to do for the rest of your life, you just have to know what you want to do next. And for me, that was really helpful to kind of compartmentalize, you know, what is otherwise, overwhelming life of decisions to have to make. Trying to think of some others, one thing I'll say, and he took this from his his grandfather, he only offers advice when I ask, as it relates to politics. And he said, you know, he would do that, his dad did that, too. And so he kept doing it the same way. And I really appreciated that because a lot of people give you unsolicited advice, but I did seek his advice often, and it was always good.
GR: If you've just joined us, you're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher, and my guest is the soon to be former Syracuse mayor, Ben Walsh. Speaking of your father, I took the liberty of reaching out to him yesterday, and I asked him to give me a question to ask you, and I think he hit it out of the park, and you anticipated it in a way. Before I ask this, I'm going to remind our listeners that your grandfather, whom you mentioned before the break, was also a mayor of Syracuse. And here's your dad's question. Of all the projects that you either worked on or completed during your eight years as mayor, which one do you think your grandfather would have been the most excited about?
BW: Oh, man. He's going to catch some grief next time I see him because I did not see that coming.
GR: Well, you have to give the grief to your mother, too, Dede, she was part of coming up with this question.
BW: Well, my mother is the Walsh family's secret weapon, so, I'll give her some grace, but my dad, I'm going to give grief to. So, the project that my grandfather would be most proud of, boy.
GR: Well, excited about is what he said.
BW: Yeah. You know, I think it would be the the community grant and 81. You know, we did have a chance to talk before he passed, about, you know, urban renewal and some of the decisions that were made and the impacts and, you know, 81 was well under way by the time he took office. But, you know, what he said was that, you know, at the time, obviously, there's a lot of federal funds coming into cities to do that type of work. And, you know, they were basing their projects off of best practices and, you know, what was eligible for funding. But he acknowledged that, you know, they didn't get it all right. And that, you know, you have to try to make the best decisions based on the best information you have. But I think he, knowing what I know, I think he would look at the way in which I viewed Interstate 81 and some of the negative impacts of urban renewal and being willing to kind of own it and try to, you know, make right some of those wrongs. I think he would have thought that was pretty cool.
GR: Good, interesting. Well, let's look ahead. You recently came out that you've been named to this new position, I believe it starts about a month from now. Just tell us about it. I mean, first of all, what is the New York State Canal Corporation, for starters, most people probably would not know what that is?
BW: Yeah, so it's a really neat position and I'm excited about it. I have a ton to learn, but, you know, of course, growing up in Syracuse, you're familiar with the history of, most people are familiar with the history of the Erie Canal. The New York Canal Corporation oversees the New York State Canal system, which of course, includes the Erie Canal, but also includes the Cayuga-Seneca Canal, the Oswego Canal, the Champlain Canal, I'm not sure if I'm missing one, but it's over 500 miles of canal ways and nearly 500 employees that maintain the system. It's a 200 year old system that has a lot of old infrastructure, locks and bridges and other things that are in need of constant repair and like a lot of infrastructure have not seen the level of funding that they require. And so, but it's also just this amazing recreational asset that I think communities are still learning how to embrace. I've already heard from a lot of mayors and town supervisors along the canal that are passionate about it and are anxious to build a working relationship. And so, you know, I think it's a combination of being, you know, an ambassador and a cheerleader for the canal, but also, you know, being a manager and managing the, you know, this massive system of infrastructure, that, again, needs a lot of work.
GR: We've got about, maybe, I don't know, four minutes left or so, five minutes. I wanted to try to turn the questions a little bit differently and a little more personal, if we could. One of them, and I'll try to say this as succinctly as I can, but in my experiences of you in the last eight years and even before when you were working in the Miner administration, you have a particular quality that I find rare in politicians, particularly these days, where it just seems like there is so much anger in this system. And I know you get frustrated with things, I know I've asked you questions that have frustrated you and I can tell, but still, it seems like there is an even-keeledness, sort of at the core that keeps you from getting sucked into kinds of exchanges that we associate with politics today. And I just wanted to know, what is the secret sauce for you? What is the, where does this come from?
BW: Well, I often joke about one of my favorite Seinfeld episodes where they keep saying 'serenity now' and then eventually they say serenity now, insanity later.
GR: (laughter)
BW: So I'm hoping that that doesn't come to fruition. But, you know, I think part of it is just going back to my role models, my father and my grandfather, they were very much the same way. You know, I think also I've learned from the way in which I've reacted to things. I can, when I look back on the past eight years, there are certainly times when I've lost my temper and I've said things that I regretted. And, you know, and sometimes it feels good in the moment, but in almost every case, I did regret it and it didn't ultimately help me achieve my outcome. You know, when I certainly lost my cool with, you know, with the Common Council on a number of occasions, both individually and collectively. And that never served us well, it just, you know, further entrenched them, I think about the most recent budget process is an example of that. And, it just, you know, I'm ultimately all about what works. And in my experience, what works is maintaining, you know, staying calm, cool and collected, maintaining relationships and partnerships and a spirit of collaboration. You know, look, if I thought losing my marbles every day was going to get the job done, then I'd probably do that, but in my experience it doesn't.
GR: Very calculated. Well, so, this last question, and I hope you'll take some time with it, although you may want to dismiss it quickly. Just for old times sake, I want to play the game that you and I have played in the past. And so if you're ready, I will try to ask the question this way.
BW: Sure.
GR: Ben Walsh is still young, 46, I think I saw in the paper. So.
BW: Yep.
GR: So, that's young in political years. If he does run for another elected office and the path as an independent was not viable to you, what parties' banner would you run under? You're on your way out now.
BW: Yeah. So look, I think that, I've said to you before, I had to convince everyone I wasn't a Republican when I first ran, and then I was convincing everyone I wasn't a Democrat when I ran again. I think, you know, when you plot me on the political spectrum, which, you know, evolves and changes, I think it's worth noting that. You know, I think people would probably, most people would put me left of center. But, you know, I do reject the, you know, the party labels because in my experience, I just, I don't think we all fit neatly into those boxes. And frankly, I don't think the party establishments themselves, necessarily are always consistent with the policies and ideologies that they claim to espouse. So, but I mean, again, in 2025 looking at the political spectrum and where the parties are, you know, again, I think most people would agree I'm, you know, to the left, but not extreme by any stretch.
GR: Yeah, that sounds fair to me, too. Well, we'll have to leave it there. That was Mayor Ben Walsh. Mayor Walsh, I want to take a little bit of time here at the end, and just I want to say, first of all, I think you more than met the Athenian and standard of leaving the city better off than you found it, which is the standard, I think, inspired in part by the Maxwell School that you've articulated all along. So I want to just take a second and thank you for your service.
BW: Thank you, Grant.
GR: I want to thank you for making yourself available, not only to me, which you've done on many occasions, but also to the Maxwell School students, which you've done as much as I think as anyone could expect. And I want to put some thanks to your family as well. All of you have been integral to this city and to this region, so we appreciate it.
BW: And I wouldn't be where I am today without the Maxwell School. So, much love to you and your colleagues and your students. It's a special place and we're lucky to have it here in Syracuse.
GR: Well, we are proud to have you as one of our graduates. You've been listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media, conversations in the public interest.
