Program transcript:
Grant Reeher: Welcome to the Campbell Conversations, I'm Grant Reeher. Six months ago, I conducted an exit interview with outgoing Syracuse Mayor Ben Walsh. In February, he was appointed to be the Executive Director of the New York State Canal Corporation at Governor Kathy Hochul’s recommendation. We thought we'd check in with the new director and see what that work is about and how it's going so far. Director Walsh, welcome back to the program, it’s good to see you again and I'm glad we still get the chance to speak.
Ben Walsh: Great to be back on with you, Grant. Yeah, it's a different role, but I’m still a public servant and still excited to talk with you and your listeners.
GR: Oh, fantastic. So, I think it would help by starting us off with just a brief description of what the Canal Corporation does and what it's responsible for.
BW: Yeah, so the New York State Canal Corporation oversees the 524-mile New York State Canal system. Most folks are familiar with one of the four canals within our system, of course, the Erie Canal. But we also have the Champlain Canal, the Cayuga-Seneca Canal and the Oswego Canal. So, again, 524 miles of navigable waterways, that has been the case for 200 years now, so we're in our third century of operation. And so, as you can imagine, we have a lot of old infrastructure to manage, whether it be our 57 locks or our 13 movable dams or our lift bridges. But increasingly, it's also about making the canal system not just about, certainly not about commercial shipping navigation, although we still do do some of that, and not even just about, you know, recreational boat navigation, but we have the Erie Canalway Trail and the Empire State Trail. We are increasingly viewing ourselves as a linear park and really a world class destination where we want people, whether it's in your backyard or, you know, it's, you know, across the ocean, we want people to come here, to visit the canal system and importantly, visit the 200 canal communities that that align it. So, it's infrastructure management, it's overseeing a staff of over 500 people. It's, you know, it's executive leadership, which is what I had been doing for the past eight years.
GR: Yeah. I wanted to dive into a couple of those things that you just mentioned there. But let me just ask you this second basic question, how's the work going so far?
BW: I'm having a blast. I know your listeners can't see me, you can, hopefully my shoulders look a little bit lighter to you.
GR: (laughter)
BW: It's a big responsibility, no doubt about it. But I have a great team and it is very different than being mayor. Certainly some similarities, but, you know, the texts and calls in the middle of the night, you know, having to show up to crime scenes, you know, that stuff, as important as it was, when I did it, you know, not having to do that as much has been a relief. And so, I'm having a lot of fun. And I tell my wife, I feel like I'm going on field trips every day out to, you know, visit different parts of the system, so I'm outdoors a lot. I'm wearing a suit a lot less and having a lot of fun.
GR: Well, yeah, I wanted to pick up on that. So, what is a typical day like for you?
BW: I think that's why I love the job, just as I did when I was mayor, because every day is different. So ,I'm sitting in my office here today out in Mattydale, it's about, you know, 15 minute drive from my house in the city. And, certainly have my fair share of meetings and, you know, try to keep up on emails like everyone else. But, you know, the timing in which I came in was interesting. So, we just opened up our navigation season on May 15th, so this past Friday. And navigation season runs from May 15th to October 14th, so it's really two different seasons. It's navigation season and then it's what we call winter work. So, I came in at the beginning of February, and a lot of my time was spent going out to locks throughout the system, overseeing what are called lock pumpouts where we drain the water out. Our workers get in there, they repair the gates, the valves and all of the other infrastructure, and this past winter, as everyone can appreciate, under really difficult conditions. So, I spent the first few months really getting to know the system. And I was out in Waterford, New York on Friday the 15th for the opening of navigation season and there were boats lined up ready to go. So yeah, plenty of time spent out in the field, but like most other jobs, you know, plenty of time behind the desk as well.
GR: So, have you had a chance to begin to think about, as director, what your priorities are going to be in the coming years? Or are you just kind of, at this point, been learning the ropes and making sure that day to day stuff is going all right?
BW: Yeah, it's been both. Certainly, you know, I feel it's important for me to understand the work that we do in order to, you know, to have authority, when working with the team and to guide direction of the Canal Corporation. You know, we are lucky to have a great partner in the New York Power Authority. The Canal Corporation is now and has been since 2017, a subsidiary of the Power Authority. So, I'm also not only getting to know the world of canals, but also the world of the power authority. We share a board. A local board member that many of your listeners will be familiar with is Bea González, who spent time, of course, on the Syracuse Common Council as council president and also at Syracuse University. So, I get to interact with my friend Bea a lot. But, you know, it's understanding what the board's priorities are, of course, what the governor's priorities are. And the great thing about Governor Hochul is she is a canaler, that's a term that we use here in Canal Corporation. She's on the canal regularly with her husband, Bill. And they know the system well, they value it. And the governor has for the past few budgets and hopefully, with this one as well, it's currently in there, has allocated an additional $50 million which the legislature has supported for the canal. We're really at an exciting time. We just celebrated our bicentennial last year, again, as I said, we're in our third year of operation. We've got a big supporter in Governor Hochul and NYPA board and the state legislature as well, so it's an exciting time to be to be here.
GR: You're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher, and I'm speaking with Ben Walsh, the Executive Director of the New York State Canal Corporation and the former mayor of the city of Syracuse. So, you mentioned the Canalway Trail when you were speaking earlier. And that's something I think that's probably of interest to a lot of our listeners, and they've been on it. I think probably at least half of them probably walked on that parts of that trail, it's widely accessible in central New York. I just wanted to give you a chance to talk about that aspect of the canal, it's probably the way most of us have interacted with it, and to ask you whether there are any major upgrades or changes planned for that. I don't know whether to try to, like, integrate it into something that people might try to do the whole thing in the same way they do the Appalachian Trail or, I don't know, just to see what your thoughts were about that.
BW: I'm glad you asked. You know, two things. One, I didn't fully answer your previous question about priorities, but, you know, you mentioned the term accessible, and that's absolutely a priority of the Canal Corporation, making our system more accessible to people. And to your point, the trail is actually the way in which the vast majority of people experience the system. We see over 4 million users of the trail system every year. And so ensuring that both the trail and the canal are accessible to people of all different abilities, we're doing a lot more accessible canoe and kayak launches along the canal, making sure that, you know, that the trail system is accessible is a priority again, as is developing our workforce. A term I've been using to describe the work that our team does is canal craft, because it really is unique to the canal system that the things that the projects that they work on and the tools that they use, you don't learn that in any school. And so, we really want to build a, you know, kind of a curriculum around canal craft and make sure that we're building the workforce of the future. But as it relates to the trail, I think what's important for people to know for the Canalway and the Empire State Trail, it's really managed by three primary parties. We at the Canal Corporation manage about a third of it. Local municipalities is kind of a another party, obviously multiple that manage about a third of it. So, in the case of the city of Syracuse, as the Empire State Trail goes through the city, the city manages that park. And the New York State Parks Department manages about a third of it. So, it's a shared responsibility, it’s something that we work very closely with them on. But to your point, I think, you know, the Empire State Trail is largely completed. There are some areas where we're, you know, that may have been gravel that we're paving now to make them more accessible. But I think it's about connecting them, connecting the trail to other trail ways, to just make it that much more accessible and user friendly to those that use it.
GR: And then, this question comes from a curiosity of mine, a personal curiosity. But I also have to tell you up front, complete ignorance, so feel free to correct the question after I ask it. But I wonder whether something or something more, if that's more accurate, could be done with the canal at the state fair. I mean, that seems like a really good place to me to, you know, generate a lot of public interest in it and appreciation for it and, you know, awareness of what kinds of opportunities are there, whether it's boating or biking or, you know, whatever. I don't know how the canal interacts with the state fair, but maybe you thought about that.
BW: Yeah, certainly. So, you know, the state fair is an important partner. We have an exhibit every year at the fair. At the exhibit I encourage people to come find us, we have a model lock, so it actually is a lock that our team made that has water in it and kind of shows people how it works, because it really is fascinating if you haven't seen how it works before. I actually got to open the lock at Lock E-2, so that’s Erie Canal 2, on opening day myself, which was really cool and a little nerve racking, but, so we have the exhibit at the fair. I was out at the fair a couple months ago for a boat show, interacting with boaters. And, you know, it's also important to note that the fair is right next to Onondaga Lake, which is part of the current modern day barge canal system. So, it's very much proximate to the canal, and an important partner for us. And, to your point, you know, it's a great way to raise people's awareness of the canal because, you talked about ignorance. I was, as much as I thought I knew about the canal system, I was very ignorant when I started. And I think a lot of us, even though we grew up with it literally or figuratively in our backyard, it gets confusing between you see old parts of the canal, like in Camillus or, you know, Chittenango or Canastota, and you can't quite connect the dots. Well, that's because, you know, you had Clinton’s Ditch, the original canal, then you had the enlarged canal, and then you have the modern day barge canal, which, you know, does include a big portion of the Erie Canal, but also, the term is, we canalized to a lot of existing waterways. So, the Mohawk River, when you drive on the Thruway is part of the canal system, and we have movable dams that flood it to make it navigable to go through. Oneida Lake is part of that canal system. So it's something that as much as we all learn about it in fourth grade and usually in eighth grade, but beyond that, unless you use it, you really don't understand it.
GR: Yeah. I saw an interesting documentary, a couple of years ago on, the other thing is there are these sort of spider legs that come off the canal, and this one was about the Black River and the canal there and the logging and how important that was at that time in the late 19th century. It was very, very interesting.
BW: Absolutely, yeah. You know, one of the things that blew my mind, I mentioned some of the assets that we have, we own over 100 dams, and the reason is because back when the canal was created, virtually any body of water or waterway within upstate New York was tapped in some way to feed water into the canal. So we own, you know, what we describe as legacy dams, you know, up in the Adirondacks as well as to the South that are our responsibility and we maintain them, but really offer no current value to the modern day canal system. So, you know, it gets into one of the challenges that we have, you know, with all of this, we have billions of dollars of capital needs and the project that we're undertaking this year, the biggest project is over $100 million. We're repairing Madison Dam, which is, folks might be familiar with Lake Moraine, but it's over by the village of Hamilton. And if Madison Dam failed, it would flood out the village and Colgate University. And so obviously it's critical that we have a good safe dam there, and we're going to have that at the end of this significant investment, but it isn't really going to benefit the canal system in any way. So, there's all sorts of, you know, 200 years is a long time. There's a lot of assets and things that, you know, we're responsible for that, you know, may not be critical today, but for the canal system, but are certainly critical for the communities around them.
GR: You're listening to the Campbell conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher and I'm talking with Ben Walsh. He's the Executive Director of the New York State Canal Corporation. And he served as the mayor of the city of Syracuse for eight years up until last January. The transition from being an elected executive, and I don't mean this as an insult, but a bureaucratic executive. You said, you know, you said you're still in an executive position. You have a large number of employees that work under you, but it's a different kind of deal being elected executive and bureaucratic executive. What's been the most challenging things about that transition in your way that you think about the job and the experiences that you have in it, sort of day to day?
BW: Yeah. So, as I said at the beginning, I think the most important thing for me is I look to what I wanted to do next was I wanted to continue to serve, I wanted to be a public servant, and I have the privilege of continuing to do that. But it is different, you know, admittedly, and I've said this to my team, you know, I went from being, you know, the executive, and of course, I had important stakeholders, the Common Council, the voters. But, you know, more often than not, the buck stopped with me and I got to make the final call. Here, while I'm the director of the Canal Corporation, as I mentioned, we're a subsidiary of the New York Power Authority, so I have, you know, Justin Driscoll is the president and CEO of NYPA, I have weekly meetings with him, and we have a board. And so, you know, the buck doesn't necessarily stop with me, and so I've had to adjust to at times when, you know, I normally I would just, you know, maybe sign off on a public statement or on a decision that I now have to run up the flagpole and that's part of that, you know, everybody who has a job and has a boss understands that, you know, again, that's important. And so, you know, again, at times I've had to adjust my expectations around that and maybe accept some additional feedback that I might not have otherwise, you know, wanted or thought I needed. But you know, that's what I signed up for. And again, ultimately, understanding that now, as you said, it was Governor Hochul that recommended me to the NYPA board. She's a critical stakeholder, as is the state legislature. I'm having regular meetings with the state delegation throughout the canal system. And so, yeah, more stakeholders, more layers. But again, I welcome it. And it's for me, my biggest concern going into a new job was going to keep the wheels turning, the job of mayor is all consuming, and my wheels are constantly turning, sometimes perhaps to a fault. But as hopefully you can, you and your listeners can tell from this conversation, there's so much to learn and to know about the canal system. And again, more broadly, the power authority, state government. There's been no shortage of things to think about, to study the research, and I'm very stimulated by it, intellectually stimulated and really enjoying the challenge.
GR: Well, I wanted to pick up on that last point and also something that you had said earlier about you're not being called out at 2:30 in the morning to, you know, go to a crime scene and have to respond to that, that kind of thing. But I do wonder whether there's been a sort of a personal adjustment for you regarding the pace of the work and that, you know, mayors have to respond to problems quickly, the problems happen quickly. Mayors don't get much slack cut for them. If there's not a good response, you know, you don't have these locks like failing, you say, you know, it would be horrible if this particular lock you were talking about or the dam failed. You know, you don't have those kinds of crises, but when you're mayor, you kind of have them all the time. So, I guess the bottom line question is, is there an element of, sort of the action that you might miss and all this?
BW: There was an adjustment period for sure. And, you know, you mentioned potential failures of infrastructure and those are very real threats that we face every day. And again, we've had a great team working to avoid those risks, so, but certainly not, you know, not as frequent, as far as the issues go. And so especially, you know, early on in the first month when, you know, when I'm sitting in my office and the phone's not ringing and the email isn’t blowing up, you know, that was an adjustment. But, you know, I have thrown myself into the work and I've, you know, pushed my way into, you know, meetings that, you know, may not be critical for me to be in, but for me, help me to learn about it. And, you know, just within the past week, not even, since navigation season started, things have definitely picked up. You know, the other big difference is geography. I have a much larger geography to cover now, you know, between Albany and Buffalo, North up to Whitehall. And with NYPA being based out of White Plains, I'm down there about once a month. So, it's a larger geography. I spend more time on the road, which, you know, is good and bad. But all of that said, you know, with whatever time and, you know, emotional energy that I have remaining that maybe I didn't as mayor, I've really tried to invest in the family, you know, that my wife and two daughters, you know, they sacrificed for me to be able to do that job. And I feel as much as this is a critical job that I want to give my all to and I am, that they deserve more of my attention as well. And so, and I think that's really where it's been a benefit is because when I do get home, when I am home, I do feel like I'm more present. And, I think that that's really important for my family, and so I'm grateful for that.
GR: Yeah, that's an important point. If you've just joined us, you're listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media. I'm Grant Reeher, and my guest is New York State Canal Corporation executive director Ben Walsh. So, I don't know what to call these, maybe my more political or ‘funner’ questions here toward the end. But, you know, from your experience as mayor, I'm sure that you developed a particular set of impressions and opinions about state government and the state. You had a particular perch there. Now you're in state government, and so I just wonder if your perceptions have changed in a significant way?
BW: That's an interesting question. You know, I think, look, I would not have come to work here if I didn't believe in Governor Hochul in the work that she's doing. And so, in that way, you know, my experience on this side of it has only, you know, reinforced the fact that, you know, I think we've got a great governor and again, I'm grateful for her interest in canals. You know, the legislature is, you know, the Senate and the Assembly I've had, previously had not had much interaction with outside of, you know, the local delegation and my, you know, occasional trips to Albany for, you know, Tin Cup Day when I'm testifying at my budget hearings. So that's been a learning process. But, you know, I think similarly, and we've talked about this, I talk with my dad all the time as a lifelong legislator that, I think generally speaking, the interactions, whether it's through the counselor, a state legislator or, you know, a federal legislator, it's pretty much the same. They represent their constituency, and so they're going to bring their concerns. And so, one of the areas where I've engaged quite a bit with the legislators in recent months, you know, I mentioned all of the different assets we have. You know, we control, we have a lot of water controlling mechanisms. And, you know, we had a heavy, you know, a lot of snow this winter. We had a lot of rain this spring, which has resulted in some pretty significant impacts on waterfront communities. You know, Oneida Lake for a long time was high. We've got that back where we wanted, but we own Caughdenoy Dam, which controls flooding water out of Oneida Lake. The Finger Lakes, Seneca Lake, and the Cayuga-Seneca Canal and Seneca River are still high, very high. We control some of that. We also have private hydroelectric facilities that control it so that in the case of Seneca, they control it. We have a hydro facility that controls it, whereas we control what comes out of Cayuga Lake. So, you know, we hear from legislators who are, you know, and passionately advocating on behalf of their constituents. And, you know, I think the challenge is the same, which is, you know, first and foremost, being honest and transparent with, you know, what we do and don't control what our challenges are, but then helping, you know, understanding and appreciating that they are advocating on behalf of their constituents. And so, we need to make sure they're armed with the information that they need to go back to their constituents. And so, you know, I think it you know, I guess the short answer is, not a whole lot different, just at a greater scale. But, you know, I just try to ground myself every day and the fact that we're all representing our various constituencies, sometimes those overlap, sometimes they don't, but, you know, there's a job to be done. And we all serve the public and so that's where we should start.
GR: From listening to you over your eight years as mayor, I concluded that part of your desire to remain an independent over all those years was kind of like a cri de coeur, you know, a lament about the state of partisan politics. That's one of the things that kind of drove you. Have the last six months lifted your spirits any in that regard, or are you even, feel even less?
BW: You know, I mean, look, you know, I mentioned the different layers above me now, and so I have to be much more careful. And you already accused me of being too careful of my words. I have to be even more careful now.
GR: (laughter)
BW: But look, I think that, you know, I have to operate in the political reality that we live in, and we know that, you know, whether it's at, you know, at the local, state or federal level, especially at the federal level, it's hyper partisan and so that is difficult to navigate. But, you know, I always said, by maintaining my independence, I was staying true to myself. I wasn't trying to make some broader statement or change as it relates to our political system. I'm one person. And so, you know, I'm not trying to push that on anyone. You know, I'm hopeful that, you know, the fact that I'm an independent maybe makes me more accessible to both parties as it relates to, you know, doing this job. But, you know, again, I think as a citizen, I certainly continue to lament the hyper partisan nature of a lot of what we all do, because, again, I always start with the fact that we all serve the same constituency. But it's the reality that I've operated in as long as I've been doing, you know, as long as I've been in public service, it continues to be. It's one that I'm aware of. I have no illusions to. But, you know, again, for me, I've always tried to focus on the people and, you know, in the governor, I have somebody who I trust and I believe in, regardless of political affiliation and, you know, the good, but the thing, the nice thing for me is, it really is not of my concern. You know, I don't have to worry about, you know, politics on a day-to-day basis and that is a bit of a relief to me.
GR: You know, we've only got about a minute and a half left, but I want to try to squeeze in two more questions if I can, and a quick one on what you just said. Just curious, I mean, do you now, like, feel like you have the luxury that you can pay less attention to national politics than you did before? I mean, because you've got, you know, you've got a canal to run.
BW: Yes and no. I mean, to your point, yeah, I have a job to do, and, you know, it's certainly relevant, but it's not critical to the day to day operations of canals. As a human being, as a citizen, I can't help but, you know, I feel it's my responsibility to pay attention. And so you know, I do, but, you know, I'm glad to worry maybe a little less about it and to be able to focus on the day-to-day operations of canals.
GR: And my last question is your predecessor as mayor, Stephanie Miner, she wrote a really good book about being mayor, and about the city of Syracuse. It's something I've been recommending to my students. I would think that as the only independent mayor of the city, I mean, at least in a century, but in the modern era of politics, you're a pretty unusual bird. And with the current state of politics being so polarized, you'd have a equally interesting book to write about your time. You giving any thought to that?
BW: Haven't put much thought towards a book. I actually just did recently complete, you know, what I'm calling my administration retrospective. Basically a look back on the past eight years and highlighting the accomplishments. So, actually you and your listeners can can keep your eye out for that. I'm going to probably be putting that out on my social media channels in a matter of days. So that was fun to do, if for no other reason than just to, you know, to have, to make sure it's documented, to make sure it's not lost in history. And might that be, you know, the foundation of something, you know, more formal in the form of a book? Perhaps. But honestly, between my professional and personal duties, I can't imagine where I'd find the time, so maybe that's a retirement gig.
GR: Yeah, you've certainly got your hands full. I have to leave it there. That was Ben Walsh, Director Walsh, as always, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me.
BW: Thanks so much, Grant. Glad to be here.
GR: You've been listening to the Campbell Conversations on WRVO Public Media, conversations and the public interest.
