Can Europe stand without the US?

By Paddy Hirsch,

Adrian Ma, Cooper Katz McKim, Kate Concannon

Published March 26, 2025 at 11:05 AM EDT

A convoy of Bundeswehr vehicles and heavily armed soldiers drives along a road in the north of Hanover.

As relations between the US and Europe continue to sour, European countries are working to lower their reliance on the U.S. for weapons and security. Today on the show, we ask what Europe needs to do to become independent militarily and what potential barriers could stand in the way.

Related episodes:
Europe's NATO members take an economic hit (Apple / Spotify)
Two Indicators: Economics of the defense industry (Apple / Spotify)

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Paddy Hirsch

Adrian Ma

Adrian Ma covers work, money and other "business-ish" for NPR's daily economics podcast The Indicator from Planet Money.

Cooper Katz McKim

Cooper Katz McKim is an Assistant Producer for NPR's daily economics podcast The Indicator from Planet Money. Before The Indicator, McKim reported at NPR Member stations in South Carolina and Wyoming. At Wyoming Public Radio, he filed stories with NPR's Environment And Energy Collaborative on bankruptcies, carbon capture and economic transition. He's won a national Edward R. Murrow Award for Best Use of Sound. More recently, he's served as a podcast producer at Sports Illustrated and the HISTORY Channel. He graduated from Tufts University and now resides in Denver, Colorado, where he spends his time mountain biking and playing jazz piano. [Copyright 2024 NPR]

Kate Concannon

Kate Concannon is the Supervising Senior Editor at The Indicator from Planet Money. She leads this small, collaborative team of hosts, reporters and producers in making sense of crucial, but often complex and confusing, economic news in just 10 minutes a day.