TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley, and my guest today is Raphael Saadiq, a Grammy-winning and Oscar-nominated singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and producer. He just announced an extended national tour of his one man show, No Bandwidth: One Man, One Night, Three Decades Of Hits." It started at the Apollo Theater in Harlem with sold-out performances in Los Angeles and Oakland and now extends through the fall. With nothing more than a mic, a few instruments and his stories, Saadiq instructed that everyone in the audience lock their phones away as he revisited the highlights, heartbreaks and hits that have shaped his music career, from his early days with Tony! Toni! Tone! to his work with Lucy Pearl and through solo albums like "Instant Vintage" and "Jimmy Lee." Here's a cut from his 2002 autobiographical hit "Still Ray."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STILL RAY")
RAPHAEL SAADIQ: (Singing) I'm coming home to you. Wear something see-through so I can see your heart. For night can never come soon enough for me. I watch the sky all day. Night is where I find you and peace of mind. My days are filled with grief. That's why I truly give you what you need because you love me for me.
MOSLEY: Raphael Saadiq has also built a career writing and collaborating with some of the biggest names in music, including Whitney Houston, Beyonce, Stevie Wonder, Solange, D'Angelo, Earth, Wind & Fire and Erykah Badu. Most recently, he co-wrote the song "I Lied To You" for Ryan Kugler's film Sinners, a gospel blues ballad that served as the emotional centerpiece of the film, inspired by his own church roots and gospel upbringing. Raphael Saadiq, welcome to FRESH AIR.
SAADIQ: Thank you. Good to be here.
MOSLEY: No phones. A one man show.
SAADIQ: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Several hours, just you locked in to the audience - why did you want the audience to put away their phones?
SAADIQ: Taking the phones away just made it so I can give people the same opportunity that I had as a young - as a shorty going to the Oakland Coliseum and watching The O'Jays. I mean, I could see them walking up the stairs. I could see the lights on their shoes. I could see the lights on the amps. I paid attention to so much detail. Now when you when you have phones in front of you, it's sort of you - see people stiff, and nobody's moving in the crowd.
MOSLEY: Yes.
SAADIQ: It looks like it's robots. It's not really real people. So when there's no phones, you know - I don't know. I just - I like it. The testimonies I heard, people said, well, they got a chance to hug, kiss, dance with each other, and...
MOSLEY: Yeah, like the old days.
SAADIQ: ...Things that they don't do - like it was, you know?
MOSLEY: Yep.
SAADIQ: See Earth, Wind & Fire at the show. You're singing, you know, (vocalizing), you got your fist pumping. You dancing. You have - your hands are free. Trying to get people a free moment.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: Hope they enjoyed it.
MOSLEY: You paid tribute at the concert to your brother, D'Wayne Wiggins. You all co-founded Tony! Toni! Tone! He passed away earlier this year. I want to offer my condolences, first, as a fan.
SAADIQ: Thank you. Thank you.
MOSLEY: Yeah. He was your Michael Jordan growing up. He taught you how to play instruments. You played a bunch of instruments for this tour by yourself, and he was one of those folks that was instrumental in teaching you.
SAADIQ: Yes, he was definitely inspiring the whole time. He was already killing it pretty much as a kid, you know, in the neighborhood. And we lived in two separate homes, you know? We have the same fathers, not the same mother. So we had two totally different lives when it came to what our households were like. But as far as music, he sort of showed me the way because he loved music so much. I loved it, too. He definitely was the guy - like, oh, he could play bass. Told my dad, you know, like, you know, he could play - and if you don't buy him a bass, I'm going to buy it for him. You know, he was that type of dude, like, always want to help.
MOSLEY: One thing that is so interesting about you, 14 siblings, 14 brothers and sisters.
SAADIQ: Well, that's including my dad's family before me. So everybody in that 14 - I'm the youngest boy.
MOSLEY: Yes.
SAADIQ: Then there would be a younger girl...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: ...From the other side. But at my house, I was the youngest. So it was two girls and two boys, and I was the youngest in that house. But I was born late, so I was the only one in the house the whole time.
MOSLEY: You all are so well known in Oakland 'cause that's where you then grew up. And one of the things that you've been doing lately, especially over the last few years, is really revealing for us, even in this one-man show, the beautiful moments, the things that make you who you are, but also the tragedies. Of your 14 siblings, you've lost several of them. Now is it - it's five now, including D'Wayne.
SAADIQ: Yeah, it's five now.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: Yeah, it's five. It's life. You know, you - I started seeing it from 7, 7 years old. My first out brother was Alvie, Alvie Wiggins. Yeah, we've lost a few, but in our neighborhood, it doesn't really - I hate to say it. It's kind of normal.
MOSLEY: It's normal, but it's something that, just over the last few years, you've really been sitting with and...
SAADIQ: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...Talking about publicly. This one-man show, I mean, you spend a lot of time talking about those influences of your siblings who have passed away. What is it about now that you want it to be this revealing?
SAADIQ: I've always talked about it, you know, with friends. I think for the one-man show, I wanted people to know the trajectory of what - of my life because you know the music. You hear the music. You hear all the pretty things. And I wanted people to see and hear, you can still show someone a beautiful sides through dark times. And it made sense to talk about it in detail because sometimes people think they know you. I'm like, OK, you do know me. We did grow up together through music, but here's the other side.
MOSLEY: One of those examples of something that you created that was beautiful out of tragedy was the hit song that everybody knows, everyone loves, from Tony! Toni! Tone!, "It Never Rains (In Southern California)." And I want to play a little bit of it because I was really surprised to hear that it came from a grief-stricken place. Let's listen to a little.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "IT NEVER RAINS (IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA)")
TONY TONI TONE: (Singing) It never rains in Southern California. I haven't seen your face in a year. I can't wait till I get there. Just to kiss and squeeze and hug, and girl, you know, the rest 'cause they tell me, it never rains in Southern California. And they tell me it never rains in Southern California. Maybe I'll take the flight out tonight, and you can pick me up about 8. I don't know what airline, girl, but I know it won't be late 'cause they tell me it never rains in Southern California. They tell me it never rains in Southern California.
MOSLEY: That's my guest today. Raphael Saadiq is part of the group Tony! Toni! Tone!, singing his 1990 hit, "It Never Rains (In Southern California)." That was written around the same time you lost your sister, Sarah.
SAADIQ: Yeah, it was. It was written by Timothy Christian Riley, and he brought it to me, and we were working on it in Sausalito at the time. And I got a phone call, and my sister got in a car accident, and she was on life support. So I actually went to the hospital, and they pulled her off the machine that same time I went there. And then I had to go back to the studio to finish the song. And, you know, so that's not how it came about, but that's how it got finished.
MOSLEY: Yeah. I'm really struck by you saying that of all of - all that you've dealt with and experienced, you wanted to show people, like, a place of beauty that can come out of that grief-stricken place. Having to get on the mic and sing this beautiful song that is also pretty romantic - it is, like, the song that kind of folks that are in new young love kind of tap into, at least I did when I was that age - I think that's just really powerful. It's kind of like the hallmark of your music.
SAADIQ: Yeah, it definitely is. It comes with a lot of influences, too, you know, from different artists. You know, when you're singing a slow song, sort of this love ballad - and this is our second album. So at this point, I'm just figuring out how to sing this type of record. So you're discovering things about your voice. You're discovering things about the music, how to complete it. And you're thinking about records you heard from Jeffrey Osborne to Lionel Richie and the Commodores, to Earth, Wind & Fire, Switch, DeBarge. I mean, you have all of these different things, like, going through your head, all these things. You know, I'd even - sharing with the people that you're working on the song with.
MOSLEY: Yeah, yeah. When did you find your voice? When did you know that you could sing?
SAADIQ: I found my voice probably at Union Baptist, this church on 71st Avenue in Oakland, California. I was asked to sing a song. All the tiny tots had to sing a song on Easter Sunday. And this lady named - called her Sister Nation (ph). She was the pastor's wife. She handed me a piece of paper and said, you're singing this song on Sunday. We got a chance to rehearse it one time, and then on Sunday, you're singing.
MOSLEY: How old were you?
SAADIQ: I don't know, 7.
MOSLEY: Yeah. Yeah.
SAADIQ: And I was singing the song, and people started responding when I was singing. The song was embarrassing. The words, it was this gospel song. It was like, you know, if I was naked without bread or meat.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: And my friends was, like, in the audience crying laughing. But when I sang it at church, people responded, like, oh, go. And I heard it, but it more or less made me more nervous, you know, because they kept responding like I was doing a good job. And then I didn't do it anymore. I didn't do it anymore until I played in some local bands, and I was playing cover songs. I would sing a song by Mr. Mister called "Broken Wings." I'd sing that, like, in the 12th grade, playing bass and singing. I'd sing "Single Life," by Cameo. Those were the next songs I'd sing. And then, pretty much, I didn't like being a front guy. I didn't want to be a front guy.
MOSLEY: You didn't?
SAADIQ: No. I was playing in a band where there was two other lead singers. And those were the two songs that I sang in the band. And when the Tonys started, ended up singing Little Walter. And the producers, Danny and Tommy, thought that I should sing more songs. And that's how I became a front guy.
MOSLEY: So it wasn't always in the plan for you to be the front guy?
SAADIQ: Oh, never. I didn't want to be a front guy. I didn't want to be a front guy at all. I wanted to play bass for people who sing really good and maybe be on a big tour. I mean, my dream would've been like, early in my career, to play for the Stones.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: You know, and just be gone. You know, play for some big group that does stadiums and just be gone.
MOSLEY: Which you actually had a chance to do that. Mick Jagger asked you to play with him on the Grammys in 2011.
SAADIQ: Yeah, see, Solomon Burke, he had passed away. And they had recorded one of his big songs. And I think his family, Solomon Burke's family called Mick - they were really good friends - and asked him would he perform for their dad on the Grammys. And Mick thought to call me to assist him. And that was so cool because we got a chance to rehearse and play blues. He loves Howlin' Wolf and Buddy Guy, Albert King. And he's a blues guy, so it was like the younger blues guy meeting another guy who was inspired by Black people's music.
MOSLEY: That's so cool. I mean, I'm just thinking about your dream always to be able to play with a group like that. And then you had that dream fulfilled by them asking for you. What do you remember most about that experience?
SAADIQ: I think the best thing hanging out with Mick was we both agreed, like, we had more fun at rehearsal than we did at the Grammys.
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Oh, really? Yeah.
SAADIQ: Yeah, because he pulled out his harp, and we played blues, you know? And my band took some solos. They're, like, blues guys. And so it made sense for us to, like, play together and really have conversations about all the blues guys that I didn't get a chance to meet. The Stones actually hung out with these guys at Chess Records.
MOSLEY: I think we know. We could hear the influences of all those greats from Mick. But, like, to hear him tell you those stories, that's pretty special.
SAADIQ: Yeah, it was what I expected because it would be like talking to my grandfather. The way he would say Howlin' Wolf was acting, that's the way my grandfather would act. Or that's just the way some of the older men I played with.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: It's those characters, you know, they're going to say what they want to say. They're going to have a shotgun with them. You know, it was shotgun love, shotgun blues, you know, so he just confirmed it.
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, my guest is Grammy Award-winning musician and producer Raphael Saadiq. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF PRINCE SONG, "THE BALLAD OF DOROTHY PARKER (2020 REMASTER)")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. And today we are talking to Raphael Saadiq, Grammy Award-winning singer, songwriter and producer known for his work with Tony! Toni! Toné! Lucy Pearl and artists like Solange, D'Angelo and John Legend.
You've always gravitated to music of previous generations. You're like an old soul, like, in modern packaging. What is it about that older music that you feel like is just always - you tapped into?
SAADIQ: It has a feeling. It has a feeling. And the late great Isaac Hayes told me, there's no such thing as old-school. It's either you been to school or you didn't.
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Right.
SAADIQ: I was schooled. Music, the feeling of music doesn't change. So you want to get the feeling from way, way back. And you want to take that feeling and inject it to something new. I didn't know that I was doing that. It's just something that I got turned out on when I was a kid. You know, whatever you get turned out by when you're young is what you end up being, you know?
MOSLEY: What do you love about the bass in particular?
SAADIQ: Bass made me feel big. I was so little. You know, I was probably 99 pounds when I was that age, you know?
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: Bass had this big sound. I heard it on Motown records like "Pride And Joy," by Marvin Gaye. And I didn't know what I was hearing. And later on, I would find out I was listening to one of the greatest bass players of...
MOSLEY: All time?
SAADIQ: All times.
MOSLEY: Who was it?
SAADIQ: James Jamerson.
MOSLEY: I want to ask you about a project that you just got done completing that we've all experienced, "Sinners" - what a movie. And you co-wrote the film's signature song, "I Lied To You" with Ludwig Goransson. It's performed by Miles Canton. He's got, like, this deep, resonant voice that feels like it's come from another time. He's so young, but he's got, like, this really rich voice. And that song that you co-wrote, it really serves as this emotional centerpiece for the film. It's a pivotal moment. First off, I want to know, how did that opportunity come your way?
SAADIQ: Well, Ryan Coogler is from Oakland. I'm a huge fan of, you know, the person that guy is. And then when this opportunity came, he called me and told me about it and told me what he was thinking about, gave me a synopsis of the film, and it was about blues and right up my alley. You know, it's my background, too. And they were about to leave to New Orleans to shoot it. And they gave me the story, and I'm thinking, when do you want it done? And they was like, can we do it now? So I just started playing the guitar lick, and I just wrote the lyrics right there.
MOSLEY: Let's listen to a little bit of it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I LIED TO YOU")
MILES CATON: (As Preacher Boy, singing) Something I've been want to tell you for a long time. It might hurt you. Hope you won't lose your mind. Well, I was just a boy, about 8 years old. You threw me your Bible on that Mississippi road. See, I love you, papa. You did all you could do. They say the truth hurts, so I lied to you. Yes, I lied to you. I love the blues. (Vocalizing).
MOSLEY: That was the song "I Lied To You" from the movie "Sinners," which my guest today, Raphael Saadiq, co-wrote. Tell me about that line - they say the truth hurts, so I lied to you. You wrote that, right?
SAADIQ: Yeah, I did, yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah, tell me about that line.
SAADIQ: Well, that's a little mischievous boy line. You know, I was just think about if you lied to your girlfriend, and it's like, you're like, well, they say the truth hurts, so I lied to you. I didn't want to hurt you, so I just lied. I've always had that in my head, that concept of a song. And...
MOSLEY: Why? Why do you think that?
SAADIQ: 'Cause I thought it would always be a great blues song to take that big voice of Miles.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: Miles sounds like he's 60.
MOSLEY: Right?
SAADIQ: Right.
MOSLEY: I know. He sure does.
SAADIQ: A young dude - like, 19 or something.
MOSLEY: Right.
SAADIQ: So once Ryan told me about the movie, sort of changed the words around from what I thought I could say 'cause now I'm thinking about a pastor, a father.
MOSLEY: Right because in the storyline, it is Miles talking to his father...
SAADIQ: To his dad.
MOSLEY: ...Who was a pastor, right?
SAADIQ: He's not telling the truth but...
MOSLEY: About his music - yep.
SAADIQ: ...He loves his dad, but he loves music.
MOSLEY: Yep.
SAADIQ: Doesn't want to hurt his dad to say, I want to go play in this club 'cause I still love the Lord. I still love church. But Dad, I got to go. Maybe I'll make it back.
MOSLEY: Is it true - I heard this. I don't know if it's true, but - that you love soundtracks and scoring? Like, you'll be at home watching a movie or a show and then just start for yourself to think about a soundtrack or a song that could be, like, the score.
SAADIQ: Yeah, if I'm watching a movie, I'll just turn the volume completely down, and I'll start scoring. I start seeing what I would do versus what they're doing. That's how I kind of learned.
MOSLEY: Wait, can you give me some examples of when you done that?
SAADIQ: So there's a movie. It's about this kid who played football at Syracuse. And Jim Brown was his mentor. And they had a Elvis Presley song in it at first, and they wanted this montage to happen when this kid is traveling from the East Coast to the South. And when he reaches the South, there's all these Black kids on the side with signs with his name because in the South, back in the day, you could run the football all the way to the five-yard line, but you couldn't punch it in for a touchdown if you're Black. Right, so not in the South.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: So the Black kids were, like, chanting him on. They wanted him to run through and make a touchdown. So I had to turn that down and write a song over the top of that, and that was a song called "Keep Marchin." That was on the record. This is called "The Way I See It," my '60s album. And instead of me giving the song to the film, I kept it. It's the biggest licensed song I ever had.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "KEEP MARCHIN'")
SAADIQ: (Singing) Well, there's nothing you can do. Well, there's nothing you can say. 'Cause everything just ain't going to go your way. If you're feeling kind of strange, and you want to lay it down, and it's hard for you to keep your feet on solid ground. You better keep on, keep marching. Oh. Keep marching on. You just got to keep on. Keep, oh yeah, keep marching on. Keep marching on. Keep marching on. Keep, keep on. Keep marching.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is Grammy award-winning musician Raphael Saadiq. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "KEEP MARCHIN'")
SAADIQ: (Singing) When a poor girl shines and a rich girl cries, and the clown is wearing no makeup, you got to get up and run. You got to get up your stride. You got to put all your pride into making it. You got to keep on, keep marching. Oh. Keep marching on.
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. And my guest today is Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and producer Raphael Saadiq. He's recently been performing a one-man show, No Bandwidth: One Man, One Night, Three Decades of Hits, and just announced a national tour of the show for this fall. Saadiq began playing bass at the age of 6, inspired by the sound of Motown. That early passion launched a decades-long career making his own music and working with artists like Whitney Houston, Beyonce, Stevie Wonder, Solange, Earth Wind & Fire and Erykah Badu.
I want to talk to you just a little bit about your process in writing songs for other people, too. Beyonce's album "Cowboy Carter" won Best Country Album and Album of the Year at the Grammys. And you produced and wrote two of the songs, "16 Carriages" and "Bodyguard." Congratulations.
SAADIQ: Thank you. You know, working with Miss Beyonce is - I know what hard work is. And I respect people that work hard, you know? You don't even have to be around them to know. You could just look at the production, amount of work they put into a show or when they come out with music or whatever. But being in the room and working with people, you really get to see, like, how hard they work.
MOSLEY: I've heard you say you don't remember the experience, but one thing you do remember is that you guys had a lot of fun.
SAADIQ: The good time is you're around a lot of great people, a lot of great thinkers. Everybody's a thinker in the room. It's sort of like I was at my studio for a lot of it on my own. But sometimes I went to the studio where it was like five or six rooms and different people working in different studios. And you can go grab, you know, The-Dream out of a room, which is an amazing songwriter, producer. Any musician is on call. I would just dream up like, call this guy, call this guy.
And that's how Quincy Jones would do it. You got to be able to have that book, that black book to call the right musicians. And that's why music suffers to me now. You're not making a phone call, so everything sounds the same. You're not giving different energy, different spirits, different personalities on music. You need different personalities. It's not about you. It's about everybody else and then you. That's what makes great records. And that's what the fun thing about Beyonce's record was.
MOSLEY: This particular song, "Bodyguard," though, you presented that to Beyonce. But that wasn't necessarily the song. She can choose, and she chose that of yours.
SAADIQ: Yeah, that song, I was going through my Dropbox. And I was playing songs in a room with her. She was in the room. Jay-Z was in the room, Jay, and some of the staff. And I was looking for a song. I don't think the phone was even hooked up to the speakers. And I played it, and I stopped it real quick because that's not the song I wanted to play. And I didn't think it was something she even liked. But she caught it in, like, two seconds. She goes, what's that? And I'm going, oh, that's just this idea that I had. And I played it, and she's like, what are you doing with it? And that's how it got on the record.
MOSLEY: I want to play a little bit of "Bodyguard." And it actually is at the point where there's, like, this solo guitar. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BODYGUARD")
BEYONCE: (Singing) Oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. I could be your bodyguard. Please, let me be your Kevlar. Baby, let me be your lifeguard. Would you let me ride shotgun, shotgun? Oh.
MOSLEY: That was Beyonce singing her award-winning song "Bodyguard," written by my guest today, Raphael Saadiq. That guitar at the end, that was also not planned, right? Is that you?
SAADIQ: Yeah, that's me. Yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: She wanted a solo. Bey wanted a solo. And I did a solo. And she was like, can we make it longer? And you never hear that from an artist in 2025 - playing a guitar solo, they want it longer. But she knows her audience, and she knows that is rare. And she's like, I think we could do that. We can have a 16-bar solo on this record. So that was a little bit of pressure, to go back in there and play, like, a 16-bar solo.
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Yeah.
SAADIQ: Because I would've called my boy. I would've called Eric Gales.
MOSLEY: Who is Eric Gales?
SAADIQ: Eric Gales is one of the most amazing guitar players in the world today. He's from Memphis, Delta blues. He was the guy that's playing - he played a lot of guitar in "Sinners." But I would've called him...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: ...To play, but he was on tour, so I had to play it. And it came out good.
MOSLEY: I love how you - I had to play it.
SAADIQ: I had to play it.
MOSLEY: You had to.
SAADIQ: I like spreading it around.
MOSLEY: Yep. I think that, like, something about that, about Beyonce choosing that song where you mistakenly played it - but then you're like, oh. And she says, no, what is that? I've heard you say both she and Solange - because you wrote "Cranes In The Sky" for "A Seat At The Table," her album - that they make choices like that. It's sort of like the mark of a great musician is to go outside the box, the places that aren't safe. It just made me very interested to know more about how you write these songs. Many times, they're for yourself. And then many years later, you might present them to an artist like Beyonce or Solange. You can tell about just how brave they are and how far they're going to go with it based on the choices they make on your selections.
SAADIQ: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I don't know. I guess it's in the water in Houston. That family, both of them are, like, really particular about what they like as far as design, style, you know, staging. And you know what you can pull off. And it's not a lot of artists that take those chances. They take chances. And music is about taking chances, taking risks, lasting longer than your teacher or your executives or labels or anything like that.
You know, for me it's like, what chance are you going to take if you're playing music? You have to be - you have to dare to suck, and a lot of people don't do that. I don't fault people that don't do that. But when you run into people that do, you have to know, like, I'm going to try myself. I'm going to try to, not be different - I'm going to try to do something that I like first. And secondly, I hope it's the audience that likes it also. But first I have to like it.
MOSLEY: Have you always been like that for yourself as an artist, dare to suck?
SAADIQ: I've always been like that. I didn't know what I was doing, so (laughter) I had to find the words later on through different people. You know, dare to suck came from this acting coach that I was working with one time, and she was like, you got to dare to suck. And I was like, wow, that's pretty good because I did suck at acting. So...
(LAUGHTER)
SAADIQ: It was like, that's a good point. I just took that and ran with it. Then I realized in music, I did that a lot because, you know, you're not always going to be good.
MOSLEY: Acting?
SAADIQ: Well, I took a acting class because it wasn't for acting. It was for stage. I just wanted to get a little bit past myself. You know, I didn't want to be always thinking I was this artist, Raphael Saadiq, 'cause like, no, I wanted to get out that shell and just, you know, walk in a room with people where I wasn't good and where we have these different drills that we do that I was going to be pretty embarrassed to do them in front of people or read a monologue. And that's better people in the class, you know, way better than me that was killing it. And I had to stand up in front of this class. I was like, wow. They were like, we have like, 5 minutes to learn this piece, and you got to read it in front of people. They going to to film you, and then the class is going to watch it back and critique you. That was the worst thing I ever heard in my life.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: And I did it, you know? I did suck, but I did it, you know?
MOSLEY: Is there a particular lesson from that that stuck with you that you use on stage now as just a part of your act?
SAADIQ: What I learned from it is, you know, you have to walk out there and, you know, take it all in. Especially it really came to be a great part for my one-man show because it's just me, and I have to walk out to an audience where I'm not - you know, you don't hear a drum roll in the beginning. It's just me. I open it up. I say something to the audience, and they're used to me coming out, you know, (vocalizing), you know? It's not that. This is something else. And so I think, you know, I really like good acting. I'm a huge fan of, like, Mos Def, Jeffrey Wright, Mr. Cheadle.
MOSLEY: Don Cheadle.
SAADIQ: Don...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: ...Who takes that craft really serious. So, you know...
MOSLEY: Like you do with music.
SAADIQ: Like I do with music. Denzel, you know - I used to see, like, Denzel, like, every other few days. We used to work out at the same boxing gym. And he's just so cool, so solid.
MOSLEY: Boxing.
SAADIQ: Yeah.
MOSLEY: You're a big boxer.
SAADIQ: No, no. I'm not a big boxer. No. I love boxing. I did train boxing, but I trained it to be in shape. I did spar a little bit, you know, but I was too old already to be getting hit in my head.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: And there's no way not to get hit in your head. But what boxing does for you - it just gives you - you don't really fight. You know, you're not out there fighting all the time, so you just need to know how to use your hands. My dad was a boxer. You know, somebody walk up on you, you just got to know you can give them, you know, a two-piece and a biscuit, you know?
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: You not going to be running, you know? If you get hit in your face, you're not going to, like, stop fighting.
MOSLEY: Right. When did you learn that?
SAADIQ: Oh, I come from a fighting family.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: You know, yeah, I come from a fighting family, like, fighting neighbors, you know, but it - all in fun, you know? So I opened up a boxing gym in Modesto, California, with my nephew, Alvie Wiggins (ph), called Charlie Ray Boxing. And it was more to get kids off the street, and give them a place to go to be - you know, educate them about, you know, school and also how to use their hands and how to commit to something. And so it's over, like 30, 40 kids. They go there, and they train, they box, and they go - they get out of school. They do their homework. And then they have a place to go talk to adults. And this one kid used to be scared to walk home 'cause he - people bothered him. He joined the gym, and two months later - you want to ride home? He was like, no.
MOSLEY: I got this.
SAADIQ: I'm walking home.
MOSLEY: Wow.
SAADIQ: He's ready.
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, my guest is Raphael Saadiq, a Grammy award-winning musician, producer and founding member of Tony! Toni! Tone!. He's worked with artists like Whitney Houston, Beyonce, Stevie Wonder and Solange and recently co-wrote the song "I Lied To You" for Ryan Coogler's new film "Sinners." We'll be right back after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. And today we are talking to Raphael Saadiq, Grammy award-winning singer, songwriter, and producer, known for his work with Tony! Toni! Tone!, Lucy Pearl, and artists like Solange, D'Angelo and John Legend. Raphael Saadiq - that's not your birth name. How did you come up with that name?
SAADIQ: My birth name is Charlie Ray, Charlie Ray Wiggins. I came up with the name because I had a friend named Michael Ashbury (ph), who passed now, from Arizona. He moved to Oakland, and we both worked at United Parcels. And on our - when we get off - we worked from 11 to 1. We'd get off work, and we would go to a mall or something. He would tell girls his name was Raphael and my name was Halstead (ph). I'm like, why do you lie to people? He was like, I don't want to tell people my name. I'm like, you sell drugs or something? What's going on? And he's like, no, I just don't want to do that. So I told him, well, I look more like a Raphael, and you look more like a Halstead.
And so I got an audition for Sheila E., and her sister, Zina, was signing everybody up, and Zina didn't look at me when she asked me by name. She goes, name, please. And I thought it was kind of rude. So I just said, Raphael. And I got the gig, and I never changed the name.
MOSLEY: Saadiq.
SAADIQ: Saadiq - I just found Raphael Saadiq in this Black bookstore and this Arabic book. And I just looked up names, and I saw Saadiq. It means man of his word. I like the word. I love how Tupac's name used to sound in film. Like, Tupac Shakur. You know, I was like, yeah, I like Raphael Saadiq.
MOSLEY: Saadiq.
SAADIQ: Like, yeah, it got a ring to it. And I used it. I went to the courthouse, swore it in, bowed. I talked to my dad first. He said he was fine with it. I changed it. And that summer, I went to New York. And the Wu-Tang Clan, Mr. U-God is - in Wu-Tang, had a little rhyme in his record. Like, it says, I want a super freak physique, like Raphael Saadiq.
MOSLEY: Saadiq.
SAADIQ: Right.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: So that was, like, maybe four months after I changed it. So I was like, oh, it worked as an artist, as a front person, and I ended up using it, and that's how I got the name.
MOSLEY: For the young 'uns (ph) who don't know, how did the name Tony! Toni! Tone! come about?
SAADIQ: How the name Tony! Toni! Tone! came about was we - my brother used to have this really wavy hair, D'Wayne. You know, we were watching the movie "Untouchables" - Andy Garcia, his name was Tony. And so he had that sort of hair, too. And so we took Andy Garcia's Tony name, and my brother said, man, my hair looks so good. On the first day of school, my teacher will call me Tony, Tony, Tony.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: And we played at this wedding reception. We didn't have a record out. The guy said - what's the name of the group? - while (ph) we were standing there. And I think my brother said Tony! Toni! Tone! - like, joking. And when they said, ladies and gentlemen - ooh. Ooh. Wow, that's...
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: But if you're Italian, you know. When we tell people that it's Italian, they go like, yeah, Tony! Toni! Tone!
MOSLEY: Yes, I love it (ph).
SAADIQ: So that's how we got the name, and it ended up, you know, haunting us because people are, like, friends that you knew from back in the day when they see you, they forget your name, and they call you Tony.
MOSLEY: Right, right.
SAADIQ: I came home one day after some tour, my mother was like, hey, Tony.
MOSLEY: Not Mama (laughter).
SAADIQ: My mom called me Tony before, back in the day. I was like, wow, d***, you too? Yeah.
MOSLEY: All right. Raphael, you brought a friend with you.
SAADIQ: I did. This is my limited edition Fender Telecaster. Fender was so nice to let me design my own guitar. It's based around my "Instant Vintage" album cover. So the little outfit I wore, this is sort of the print.
MOSLEY: Oh, the print is there, that Paisley one. Yeah.
SAADIQ: Right.
MOSLEY: I mean, you say it's so nice that they allowed you to do it, but it's an honor. It's a limited series.
SAADIQ: No it's definitely an honor, but I'm a bass player first.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: So most of my friends who play guitar, you know, we joke around, like, how in the hell you get a guitar?
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
SAADIQ: And I'm like, you definitely deserve it more than me. But...
(Playing guitar).
I like it because it's - as a bass player, I need, like, this body to be against me, and it just feels good against my body. And it's - it has that...
(Playing guitar).
That...
(Playing guitar).
MOSLEY: What is that? When you say it has that, what is that?
SAADIQ: It has that...
(Playing guitar).
It has that bite to it. It just bites.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: And so when you're writing on it, it just gives me that information to just keep, you know, going forward. And I know the bass is coming next.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: But I love this stripe on the neck. Like, when I was a kid, when I would see a guitar with this on the back of it - which was Fender.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: Fender is...
MOSLEY: That's a signature of Fender.
SAADIQ: That's a signature of Fender.
MOSLEY: Yeah. Tell me about the design process, how you came to design it, make these choices that you make. Yeah. And describe what it looks like because we've got cameras, but there are also people who are going to be just hearing it.
SAADIQ: Well, I just really took the artwork from "Instant Vintage." And I wanted that color, and I wanted this - it's called the pick guard. This is where you...
(Playing guitar).
It's, like, this pretty pick guard. I wanted that. I wanted this black stripe around the trims (ph). I wanted this to feel like a car, like an old-school car.
MOSLEY: Ah.
SAADIQ: Like, Oakland, like, you know, we have, like, candy - a candy-colored Mustang - '67 Mustang or a Cougar or, like, you know...
MOSLEY: Driving down Telegraph.
SAADIQ: Driving down Telegraph - but I wanted the headstock to be black and gold. And I think that I just really wanted to make sure that it has this really, like, Tony Maiden sound with - this is like Rufus and Chaka Khan, you know, like...
MOSLEY: What's that?
SAADIQ: (Playing guitar).
It had - I wanted it to have bite. And Tony Maiden is, like, a hero of mine who plays guitar, who played all those records on Rufus and Chaka Khan. And I think he was my main inspiration behind the sound of the guitar.
MOSLEY: You know, there's, like, an energy shift from you when you pick up that guitar.
SAADIQ: Yeah, of course, yeah. I'm at home when I pick up the guitar. Any instrument, I'm - this is when you're like, you know, a kid and you find something that you love. And, you know, you love - I mean, musicians don't want to say it, but you love this more than you love your girl.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: You have to reel it in after a while. You go, OK, the instrument is second, and the girl is first - but, you know.
MOSLEY: My guest is Raphael Saadiq, Grammy-winning musician, producer and founding member of Tony! Toni! Tone!. We'll be back after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. Today we are talking to Raphael Saadiq, Grammy Award-winning musician. We're talking about his roots, his influences and what continues to inspire him.
Sly Stone - I want to talk to you a little bit about him, legendary musician, just passed away, was a big influence on you. Is it true that Sly's father was your pastor?
SAADIQ: No, he wasn't my pastor, but we were in the same church district. It's called COGIC, Church of God in Christ. And his dad was a part of that network. And he visited the church that I went to, and he preached at this church. And I think I was playing drums, and Timothy Riley was on organ. And Sly's dad was in the pulpit preaching. And we were having this conversation while he was preaching, like, that's Sly's dad. That's Sly's dad, Sylvester.
MOSLEY: That's the OG Sylvester.
SAADIQ: That's the OG Sylvester. And he just looked - he just stopped preaching and looked over at us and just said, if you ever get out there in the world, you know, be careful. Just be careful.
MOSLEY: That was his advice to you?
SAADIQ: Yeah. I mean, right on the microphone, in front of the church.
MOSLEY: How did you interpret what he was saying to you?
SAADIQ: I knew exactly what he was talking about. He was saying, you know, it's just - it's a lot out there, but be careful. There's drugs out there, a lot of temptation, a lot of things that can get you into a place where you don't want to be. And then his father was saying, don't be like Sly, in a preacher type of way. But every preacher was like that, you know? But Sly is the - I don't even want to say GOAT. That's - that don't even - that doesn't even...
MOSLEY: Do it - do him...
SAADIQ: Do it...
MOSLEY: ...Justice.
SAADIQ: ...Him justice. He was definitely an inspiration for everybody. All teach he - he was like Steph Curry. He changed the game of music completely. And I know that 'cause I talked to the late, great Maurice White, and we hung out a lot. And I said, so man, who are you trying to - what was your inspiration? And he said, man, you know what? I was really just trying to be like the - from the - you know, the boys up your way. I'm like, who? Sly. And I would listen - when I listen to Earth, Wind & Fire, I can hear it, how his inflections on his word - some of the words he used and how he sings. And then I start thinking, everybody was really trying to be like Sly. He's an amazing songwriter. He's an amazing piano player, organ player. And, and he was smart, brilliant, intelligent. You know, he was an intellectual guy. He understood theory, even though he just got - he had the God-given gift.
MOSLEY: Yeah, it, like, permeates - just, like, his influence, it seems like.
SAADIQ: Yeah, he's - man, when you go listen to, like, "In Time" and "Hot Fun In The Summertime" and - I mean, anything that he did, I don't even think he needed a band most of the time. I would have loved to hear him just sing and play. That voice is, like...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
SAADIQ: I felt like he sounded a lot like Ray Charles. Yeah, I feel like he was inspired by Ray Charles a lot.
MOSLEY: "Stone Rollin,'" that song of yours - was that a tribute to him? Is that...
SAADIQ: No, that's a tribute to...
(Playing guitar).
More like Memphis.
MOSLEY: Memphis.
SAADIQ: Memphis.
MOSLEY: Memphis soul or Memphis blues, yeah.
SAADIQ: Memphis soul - yeah, like, definitely - yeah, that's the Stax Records - Otis Redding, Al Green. Those boys - nobody did it like them, you know? The first lyric - you know, fat lady shaking, backbone breaking. You know, that's a blues line. But that record - there were songs out there that sound like a hundred-yard dash was, like, more of a slide thing or a heart attack.
(Playing guitar, singing) You're giving me a heart attack, don't you, babe?
(Playing guitar).
That was definitely...
(Playing guitar, vocalizing).
(Playing guitar).
That was definitely a Sly thing, 100%.
MOSLEY: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SAADIQ: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Well, Raphael Saadiq, this has been such a pleasure.
SAADIQ: Thank you.
MOSLEY: Raphael Saadiq is a Grammy award-winning musician and producer. His one-man show, "No Bandwidth: One Man, One Night, Three Decades Of Hits," will continue touring the country this fall.
Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, author and poet Leila Mottley. She earned critical acclaim a few years ago at justs 19 for her New York Times bestselling debut novel "Nightcrawling." Now she's back with a new novel that follows three young women as they navigate what it means to be a mother today, when reproductive rights are being rolled back across the country. I hope you can join us.
To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram, @nprfreshair. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Meyers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson (ph). Roberta Shorrock directs the show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GET INVOLVED")
Q-TIP: (Rapping) S-A double D-I-Q. Yo, he want to get involved with you. Mr. S-A double D-I-Q. Yo, he want to get involved with you. Mr. S-A double D-I-Q. Yo, he want to get involved with you. Mr. S-A double D-I-Q. Yo, he want to get involved.
SAADIQ: (Singing) Met this girl walking in the ghetto, looking good but looking down.
Q-TIP: (Rapping) What you say? Come on by.
SAADIQ: (Singing) Said she needed inspiration.
Q-TIP: (Rapping) What'd you say?
SAADIQ: (Singing) I said get your s*** 'cause we're going uptown.
Q-TIP: (Rapping) Uptown, baby, uptown, say what?
SAADIQ: (Singing) I could tell she was feeling better. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
